Changing the gearbox oil

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gIzzE
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 09:29

Or this if you do lots of sub 10 mile journeys where the 'box doesn't get to high temperatures...

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1019-red-li ... 0-gl4.aspx

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lightning
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 12:35

Accidental post duplication....again!
It's this stupid phone, says it hasn't worked then sends an hour later.
Last edited by lightning on Thu 10 Jul, 2014 13:55, edited 2 times in total.

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lightning
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 13:53

I just had a follow up call from Castrol Technical UK.

The guy said that the Syntrax Universal Plus is suitable for gear boxes that specified a GL4 oil. It has a special additives package that does not attack any metals in the transmission.

He did say that if l were to ask, they would actually recommend the Syntrax SAE 75 monograde option for the Z3, rather than the 75w/90.

But either product is perfectly safe to use in the Z3 transmission.

deni2s
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by deni2s » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 14:01

Just received the car from bmw dealership service and they changed the gearbox oil with Castrol ATF-Dextron III

gIzzE
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 14:22

Why do you want to use Castrol?

Have a look at this thread..

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... il+mtf+wow

gIzzE
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 14:47

What do you want to achieve in changing your oil?

Just new oil? A good thing.

A slicker gear change? Then go with an ATF which is much thinner and probably better suited to our UK weather.

Better protection? Then go for a 75w90 manual transmission fluid, it will protect teh 'box a little more but may make it feel a bit mushy and the gears won't snap in.


There are different reasons for using different oils, and at £30 a pop you may as well try a few.

I have found the Redline D4 ATF my fave as the gear changes are just so nice, the way it just snaps into gear is an absolute treat.

I would rather go with a thinner oil and nicer gear changes and swap every 20k miles than something thicker that can stay in there for 40k miles but feels notchy and a bit mushy.
The difference is not subtle, so just try a few.

But you need to look at the viscosity figures at 40°c 100°c to get an idea of how they will perform, tells you far more than the rating on the bottle.

Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by Del » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 16:29

My observation of forum posts over the last few years is that owners with the ZF box seem to report more minor niggles than the smaller engine cars (like mine) with the Getrag box. However, I have also noticed that many of these minor niggles are sorted out by an oil change (many brands mentioned) with Lightning's positive response/experience being typical. :)

I've seen one or two posts where the quantity of oil drained was significantly less than the quantity of new oil put in and the gearboxes had no apparent leaks :shock:

The orange/green/yellow labels on gearboxes are starting to disintegrate - my 1998 one (yellow LT1 label) is protected by a large undertray and yet it is now barely legible :roll:

The bottom line therefore is that it is a worthwhile job, more likely than not it will improve the feel of your gearbox and research like this thread will enable owners to pick a suitable current-day oil.

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lightning
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Location: Stockport

Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 18:26

gIzzE wrote:Why do you want to use Castrol?

Have a look at this thread..

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... il+mtf+wow
I am not bothered which brand l use, as long as it is the right oil.
It was just that l'd bought the Castrol oil for £40 (see the beginning of this thread) and put it in the gearbox. Then later on people started saying it was the "wrong oil". And the container claimed otherwise.

So l called Castrol UK to try and find out for sure, before l dropped out £40 of oil and replaced it with £30-40 worth of something else.

And l can report that the gearbox is MUCH better since l changed the oil! So it's worth doing, whatever you decide to refill it with.

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lightning
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Location: Stockport

Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 18:39

This is what l call a "stress thread"

"Have l used the right oil in my transmission"

More "stress threads" l have encountered.

"Do l HAVE to change the cambelt on my Ferrari every two years?"

"Which head gasket set is the best for the Rover K Series in my Lotus?"

"Can l refill my Porsche 928 aircon with R34 without changing all the seals, if l put leak stopper in with it?"

"Will chipping my Transit Connect see off the Ford clutch prematurely?"

"What oil should l put in the engine of my 1946 Morris 8?"

gIzzE
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 19:14

lightning wrote: I am not bothered which brand l use, as long as it is the right oil.
It was just that l'd bought the Castrol oil for £40 and put it in the gearbox.

Sorry, forgot that is how the thread started. :D


No, don't drop it out, it will be fine.

However, looking at the specs it does seem to have an extremely high viscosity figure at 40ºc...

Viscosity @ 40º C 103.7
Viscosity @ 100º C 15.7

Compare that to my ATF D4.....

Redline D4 ATF
Kv @ 40c = 34
Kv @ 100c = 7.5



This is the oils that seem to get good feedback for a slick change for comparison...

Pentosin MTF-LT-2

Kv @ 40c = 38.3
Kv @ 100c = 7.7

Amsoil Universal ATF (New Formula)

Kv @ 40c = 38.5
Kv @ 100c = 7.5

Redline D4 ATF
Kv @ 40c = 34
Kv @ 100c = 7.5

Redline MTL GL4
Kv @ 40c = 54.1
Kv @ 100c = 10.4

Royal Purple Synchromax
Kv @ 40c = 38
KV @ 100c = 7.7

Royal Purple ATF
Kv @ 40c = 35
Kv @ 100c = 7.5

Amsoil 5w30 Synchromesh

Kv @ 40c = 48.3
Kv @ 100c = 9.7



It will be fine, but maybe worth swapping it over as winter approaches for something a little slicker?

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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 19:17

The spec of that compares to the following, taken from the Bimmerpost thread....

Amsoil 75w90 Manual Transmission and Transaxle Gear Lube: This fluid is for the owner who races their car regularly or runs autocross competitions.
All forced induction applications or other high horsepower applications.
Owners who live in extreme climates such as Texas that do not get below 40 degrees and have temps that reach 110 and above.

Amsoil 75w90 GL4 Gear Lube (Manual transaxle and Transmission Lube)

Kv @ 40c = 87.6
Kv @ 100c = 13.9

Amsoil 75w90 Gear Lube GL5

Kv @ 40c = 109
Kv @ 100c = 16.8

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lightning
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Location: Stockport

Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Thu 10 Jul, 2014 19:18

Yeah, the guy from Castrol suggested l might be better with the SAE 75.

I will see how it performs.

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Zed Free
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by Zed Free » Fri 11 Jul, 2014 18:01

Need to be a little careful on this thread with the names of the Castrol oils

Systrans is for gearboxes

Systrax is for differentials

The 75 grade that they are recommending is probably the Systrans B75w.

If you want to go Castrol it is worth downloading their Specialities Product Range brochure. B75w approved by ZF for use in BMW cars according to that brochure.
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lightning
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Fri 11 Jul, 2014 18:49

Systrax? Systrans?
I have SYNTRAX universal plus 75w/90

And Castrol say it can be used in both gearboxes and differentials lol

gIzzE
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Fri 11 Jul, 2014 19:12

Yeah it can, but it is a diff oil, hence why it is twice as thick as all the gearbox oils.

I would dump it out and put something else in there, the Redline D4 is well worth a punt, lovely slick changes.

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lightning
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by lightning » Fri 11 Jul, 2014 19:38

Do you know what, l might just try that and see if it is any better.

gIzzE
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by gIzzE » Fri 11 Jul, 2014 20:31

If it was £250 like the auto gearbox change on some cars I would say run with it, but for £30 you may as well put the right stuff in.
Think of the Castrol stuff as a bit of a clean out. Many do swap after a thousand miles or so.

handsomejackuk
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Location: Blaenau Gwent South Wales...

Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by handsomejackuk » Tue 25 Oct, 2016 00:57

notice my local motor factors has millers TRX fully synth 75w 80 oil at just over a fiver for a litre... all be it a gl4 and gl5 oil...this

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive ... sector=Car

any opinions on this for z3 1.9 manual gearbox

my only issue is that its gl5 spec to which is not good...

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pingu
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by pingu » Tue 25 Oct, 2016 13:43

Post deleted
Last edited by pingu on Tue 25 Oct, 2016 13:57, edited 1 time in total.
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pingu
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by pingu » Tue 25 Oct, 2016 13:56

Post deleted
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Southernboy
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by Southernboy » Tue 25 Oct, 2016 14:14

BMW do not manufacture oil.... and they don't have a special oil made for them. The BMW specification is available from other sources like Castrol or Shell etc.
Lets look at the description from BMW...
MTF = Manual Transmission Fluid.
LT-1 = Life Time (They don't specify if the "lifetime" is that of the oil, the gearbox or the driver...so you're free to speculate on that point. It generally implies "warranty period plus a couple of more years - so probably around 5 years is equivalent to the word "lifetime" IN BMW speak.

Now, other brands such as Castrol also have MTF LT1 gearbox oils.... so pray tell me, does a BMW labeled plastic bottle change the contents in the bottle. What is important is to get the correct EP and / or GL specification.

The older BMW gearboxes were filled with either normal 75-80 EP gear oil or automatic transmission fluid, this being denoted by the use of either a brown or orange label near the filler plug, and owners of such cars therefore accept the need to change the oil from time to time. Many have found that the use of a more modern synthetic lubricant improves their gear change action, but before following this route, first find if your gearbox requires the use of GL3/GL4 oil only, or the modern GL5 standard.

Owners of classic cars should be aware that GL5 oils contains additives which will rapidly attack any copper alloy components such as selector forks and bushes. The older GL3/GL4 lubricants are now becoming difficult to obtain from local suppliers, but are still available from oil specialists such as Opie Oils. An EP 75-90 is quite acceptable for use in the BMW gearbox. I have never bought gearbox or any other oil from BMW, and I haven't had a problem in 200,000kms... so put that in your box and smoke it... :D

There are no "magic" oils which will make your gearbox feel brand new - there are oils which may result in damage to a gearbox if it's not in the correct specification range though.... other than that, oil is no more than a lubricant.
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pingu
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by pingu » Tue 25 Oct, 2016 18:31

Southernboy wrote:BMW do not manufacture oil.... and they don't have a special oil made for them. The BMW specification is available from other sources like Castrol or Shell etc.
Lets look at the description from BMW...
MTF = Manual Transmission Fluid.
LT-1 = Life Time (They don't specify if the "lifetime" is that of the oil, the gearbox or the driver...so you're free to speculate on that point. It generally implies "warranty period plus a couple of more years - so probably around 5 years is equivalent to the word "lifetime" IN BMW speak.

Now, other brands such as Castrol also have MTF LT1 gearbox oils.... so pray tell me, does a BMW labeled plastic bottle change the contents in the bottle. What is important is to get the correct EP and / or GL specification.

The older BMW gearboxes were filled with either normal 75-80 EP gear oil or automatic transmission fluid, this being denoted by the use of either a brown or orange label near the filler plug, and owners of such cars therefore accept the need to change the oil from time to time. Many have found that the use of a more modern synthetic lubricant improves their gear change action, but before following this route, first find if your gearbox requires the use of GL3/GL4 oil only, or the modern GL5 standard.

Owners of classic cars should be aware that GL5 oils contains additives which will rapidly attack any copper alloy components such as selector forks and bushes. The older GL3/GL4 lubricants are now becoming difficult to obtain from local suppliers, but are still available from oil specialists such as Opie Oils. An EP 75-90 is quite acceptable for use in the BMW gearbox. I have never bought gearbox or any other oil from BMW, and I haven't had a problem in 200,000kms... so put that in your box and smoke it... :D

There are no "magic" oils which will make your gearbox feel brand new - there are oils which may result in damage to a gearbox if it's not in the correct specification range though.... other than that, oil is no more than a lubricant.
What are you on about? It looks like you've dragged up a conversation that is over two year's old. If I was daft enough to do that, I'd delete my post :twisted: .
Pingu

Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by Del » Tue 25 Oct, 2016 18:39

handsomejackuk wrote:any opinions on this for z3 1.9 manual gearbox
If you have a yellow label on the gearbox (if it hasn't faded or fallen off) stick to a GL4 oil as nobody today in 2016 (BMW or otherwise) could categorically confirm that the more modern GL5 is OK. The 1.9 Getrag box holds a shade over 1 litre.

handsomejackuk
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Re: Changing the gearbox oil

Post by handsomejackuk » Wed 26 Oct, 2016 00:37

woooo hoooo gl4 it is then ......

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