Gear Change Very Hard

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waynerp
Joined: Sat 21 Jun, 2014 19:37
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
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Gear Change Very Hard

Post by waynerp »

Hi All
I'm looking for advice with my gearbox.
I've only had the car a couple of months and it has being doing it since I bought it and not being massively mechanically talented I though I would ask for advice before going any further.
Every gear change from reverse all the way up to 5th is a struggle. Mainly reverse and 1st and 2nd are particularly difficult to put into gear, but reverse I sometimes have to push very hard to get it into gear.

I saw a thread where someone suggested changing a hose. Could it simply be a case of this and maybe putting a thinner oil in, or am I looking at a new gearbox?

Any advice appreciated

Many Thanks
waynerp
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BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by BladeRunner919 »

Is it just that it needs a hard push, or do you get any sort of crunching between gears? How does changing gear on the move compare to moving through the gears with the car stationary and the engine switched off?
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waynerp
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by waynerp »

Hi
Its definitely a Hard push needed. Lower gears and reverse are by far the worse. No difference between static and on the move, although it does get a little easier ( not a lot ) after been running for a while
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gIzzE
Joined: Mon 06 Aug, 2007 21:32
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by gIzzE »

And does it get easier, even if only slightly, when you have been driving it for a while and the gearbox oil has heated up a bit?

What mileage is the car?


I would say put some Redline D4 ATF in there to start off with, this is about as thin as you can safely go and in theory should make the changes as easy as possible without risking your gearbox.

About £35 for 2 quarts, you only need around 1.3 quarts but that is the way you have to buy it.
gIzzE
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by gIzzE »

waynerp wrote:Hi
........although it does get a little easier ( not a lot ) after been running for a while
That sounds like it is definitely worth doing an oil change then.

Mine was the same, plus it always went into 5th when I was wanting 3rd, the Redline stuff transformed it, from a notchy change that was a bit of an effort into reviving my love for manual 'boxes.

I bought my first auto 15 years ago, a 528i E39, and ever since then have not really liked manuals, I had a 318ti E46 that was good and the rest just put me off, Audi A4 and S4 that were just terrible, then recently a BMW X1, which was in the period where BMW had really issues with their clutch (2006-2011) where every single diesel car made had judder, very slight and many said "oh, that's just the way BMW clutches are" but in reality they were designed wrong and it took them 5 years to work out what was wrong. I got the revised clutch and flywheel on my X1 and it was a joy after that, but we sold it as I also had an E350 estate that did the same job.


But this manual box on the Z3 is now a complete pleasure, so much so I have been looking at manual E92 M3s, something I would have never considered before owning this.
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waynerp
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by waynerp »

Yes it does get easier after a while, more so at the moment as it is unusually hot in UK :o
The car has done 107000 miles
Will different oil really make much difference?
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Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by Del »

I would also suggest starting with the quick simple things first. Gearbox oil change and fresh fluid bled through the clutch slave cylinder. The ZF gearbox seems a little more prone to age-related minor servicing issues like this and many forum members have reported a great improvement after a simple oil change.
gIzzE
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by gIzzE »

waynerp wrote:Yes it does get easier after a while, more so at the moment as it is unusually hot in UK :o
The car has done 107000 miles
Will different oil really make much difference?

Yeah of course it will.

The oil in your gearbox will no longer be acting like oil, creating a slippery coating to the moving parts. Mine had sludge in it, not massive amounts but enough to make you realise it can only be causing issues.

They say change it every 30-40k miles, yours is now nearly 110k miles, of course it will make a difference. ;)
Rafolian
Joined: Wed 27 Feb, 2013 08:41
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by Rafolian »

If no difference after oil and fluid change then it's probably the clutch pressure plate has got a bit tired!
Some years ago my 944 S2 cabrio had similar symptoms and then the rubber doughnut in the friction plate sheared leaving me with no drive. (Original clutch, 140k miles) I thought it was the gearbox, but after the new clutch assembly was fitted the gear change was better than new, light and sweet whereas before it would hardly go into 1st and reverse without switching the engine off at times!
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lordhelpus
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by lordhelpus »

Hi, When you lift the clutch with the engine running when does the clutch "bite" at the bottom or at the top of the clutch pedal travel. if it's at the top then your clutch is on the way out. ....if it's halfway or at the bottom before the clutch bites then change the oil in the gearbox Redline ATF/DTF from opie oils. After 107,000 miles that ain't oil in there that's sludge!!!!!
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Mike Fishwick
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by Mike Fishwick »

What is the gearchange like when the engine is not running? Try engaging first gear while the engine is running, then - while maintaining pressure on the gear lever, turn the ignition off, and see if it then slides into gear. If so, the problem is clutchdrag, a sign of either a worn-out clutch (doubtful at your mileage) or the clutch slave cylinder needs to be bled.
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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by motco »

Mike Fishwick wrote:What is the gearchange like when the engine is not running? Try engaging first gear while the engine is running, then - while maintaining pressure on the gear lever, turn the ignition off, and see if it then slides into gear. If so, the problem is clutchdrag, a sign of either a worn-out clutch (doubtful at your mileage) or the clutch slave cylinder needs to be bled.
The very question I was about to ask. If it slips in and out of gear with the engine off and the clutch pedal depressed, it's a dynamic phenomenon as you say. Z3 gearchanges are notoriously 'notchy' anyway and that cannot help.
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waynerp
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by waynerp »

Thanks for all your advice guys.
I tried putting it in gear then turning engine off, and nothing it stayed in gear, so i assume that is ok? The biting point is right at the bottom, which i'm still getting used to as i'm used to a bit more travel in the biting point.
i have ordered some redline and plan to put that in at the weekend. My BMW mechanic also said that the gearboxes are 'notchy' because of the shortshift.

Again thanks for all your advice
waynerp
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Mike Fishwick
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by Mike Fishwick »

No - what I suggested was to:

' Try engaging first gear while the engine is running, then - while maintaining pressure on the gear lever, turn the ignition off, and see if it then slides into gear.'

This means pushing the lever against the first gear position until you feel the obstruction, then while maintaining the pressure on it, turn off the engine, and see if it then slides into gear. Also, see how the gearbox operates withthe engine stopped.
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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by motco »

If the clutch engages 'right at the bottom', then you may well have a dragging clutch that fails to fully clear the flywheel. If the gearchange works smoothly and easily with the engine stopped that confirms it............. probably!
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Southernboy
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by Southernboy »

Sounds more like the thrust bearing has worn and / or the clutch spring / splines. The clutch should disengage well before the pedal is fully depressed. You might also want to have a close look at the slave cylinder. The possibility of it needing a new kit of rubber seals/plunger seal etc might sort the problem. If fluid is by-passing them even a little it will reflect in a poor engage/disengage function. Also check the rubber hose which connects to the slave...if it is weak and is expanding under the pressure of the fluid, it will not deliver full pressure to the slave push-rod and hence the clutch. If after that it's still not performing, you're left with the Master cylinder functioning which is directly activated by the foot pedal being depressed. Check the fitment of the foot pedal and it's mountings, hinge point etc... There is a bush at the fulcrum point on the pedal which if excessively worn may result in the pedal travel being affected so that it requires full depression to disengage/engage the clutch. Item # 4 and # 3 on the realOEM clutch pedal diagram.......... http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/r/o/72.png
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lordhelpus
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by lordhelpus »

Hi, waynerp
You say your clutch bites "right at the bottom" if that's the case then I would go with what southernboy suggests on this. Ideally the clutch should "bite" at 1/3rd to 1/2 way. Others on here have suggested clutch drag.. I would tend agree with them on that. Still change the oil though.!!!

And don't forget when draining undo....... FILLER plug FIRST......DRAIN plug LAST.
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waynerp
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by waynerp »

Hi Guys

Well apologies for the delay in replying and thank you all for your advise. I have been so busy with work ( which is a good thing i guess ) i only got around to changing the gearbox oil today !!
So i used the redline atf fluid and as you all said the difference is very noticeable.
its still a bit 'clunky' but there is a big improvement in the lower gears which is a great relief!
So again thanks for all your help and advice
waynerp
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lightning
Joined: Tue 27 Nov, 2007 08:15
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Re: Gear Change Very Hard

Post by lightning »

Also change the clutch hydraulic fluid.

I did both on my Z3 3.0 and it transformed the gear change. I used Castrol Syntrax B75w after a whole thread on which gearbox oil to use lol
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