Bad day today...

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Thu 23 Apr, 2015 18:24

I just had a crash couple hours ago...
thoughts?

clearly the rear trailing arm is bented...
i don't know if the hood the bumper and the rear quarter panel/fender can be fixed without replacement

Dino D · Post by **Dino D** » Thu 23 Apr, 2015 18:44

Sorry to see that!

After a few years in Athens I had dents on every panel, I feel your pain!

The damage to the panels looks pretty light so should be able to be repaired.

Hopefully the suspension is not too bent but that will take some checking.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Thu 23 Apr, 2015 18:48

Dino D wrote:Sorry to see that!

After a few years in Athens I had dents on every panel, I feel your pain!

The damage to the panels looks pretty light so should be able to be repaired.

Hopefully the suspension is not too bent but that will take some checking.

thanks bud,
the suspension unfortunately i think is pretty damaged, wheel has gone some centimeters inside the fender and also it is like it has more degrees of camber and toe now... i only hope it is only the trailing arm and not the axle or any extra things. So do you guys think this is a "light" damage overall? like under 1000€?

beerbelly · Post by **beerbelly** » Thu 23 Apr, 2015 19:06

panel damage looks superficial £400 or so depending on the garage (lots of small operations turn out excellent work ) as for the wheel alignment impossible to say will need putting on a jig to be sure what's gone

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Thu 23 Apr, 2015 19:09

The rear trailing arms are easily bent - that's good news because it will probably have absorbed any impact and not damaged the subframe. The panels look repairable - the rear could even be done as a paintless dent repair by the look of it.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 09:24

cost for panel repairs +hood repair +hood paint +bumper repair is 250-300€

Tomorrow i will know what happened exactly with the suspension, we have to remove the front bumper first so the car is able to move.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 10:17

Inferno wrote:cost for panel repairs +hood repair +hood paint +bumper repair is 250-300€

Tomorrow i will know what happened exactly with the suspension, we have to remove the front bumper first so the car is able to move.

Sorry to read about the damage, but those prices seem very cheap. Is the quality of the repair going to be ok?

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 10:21

pingu wrote:
Inferno wrote:cost for panel repairs +hood repair +hood paint +bumper repair is 250-300€

Tomorrow i will know what happened exactly with the suspension, we have to remove the front bumper first so the car is able to move.
Sorry to read about the damage, but those prices seem very cheap. Is the quality of the repair going to be ok?

Thanx for the sympathy.

The shop doing it is a friend. I go there all the time, all the family cars

Rafolian · Post by **Rafolian** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 12:16

Very similar prices to here in Spain and the quality is first class!

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 13:32

....... Ouch !..... Surprised you managed to do that considering it's your "baby"...

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 13:37

Not my fault...the other driver also abandoned the site. No i didn't get his licence plate. Probably uninsuranced car i guess

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 13:41

......... Is that part of the "Grexit" strategy....

At least it's not going to cost you too much to restore.... you may as well repaint the entire car considering the price you get there...

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 14:33

yeah, car incurance i guess is a bit of a luxury these days for most people here, difficult times.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 17:54

Rafolian wrote:Very similar prices to here in Spain and the quality is first class!

BMW prices seem to be similar(ish) all over the world. I assume you are just talking about labour prices?

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:56

cost has gone into ouch levels, i need new axle carrier and new trailing arm plus labour installing them

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Sat 25 Apr, 2015 10:13

Inferno wrote:cost has gone into ouch levels, i need new axle carrier and new trailing arm plus labour installing them

If you can't get salvage, then that's a write-off

.

Do you do much salvage in Greece and are there many Z3s there?

It's not the end of the world. Check out the vehicles these parts are fitted to...

Axle Carrier: http://realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part ... showeur=on
Trailing Arm (Right): http://realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part ... showeur=on

The joys of having a "Parts Bin Car"

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Sat 25 Apr, 2015 10:47

We have many Z3s here, it has sold a lot of units, BUT parts are always difficult to find for some reason. Most of them are imported to our used spare shops, from Germany.

The mechanic found a "set" of used axle carrier and trailing arm for 300€ he want to make some extra calls on Monday because today most spare shops are closed, perhaps he will find them in better price, these parts are difficult to find. his labour is 220€. Total cost has raised on 800€ so far..

I am in hurry to fix the car before Grexit... after that it will impossible

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Sat 25 Apr, 2015 15:56

If you look at the links on my other post you will see that you are not limited to using the Z3 for parts. The E36 316, 318 uses the same trailing arms and 323 uses the same axle carrier as well as the other two

.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Mon 27 Apr, 2015 14:48

Thanx pingu i bought the parts they are from a Z3.

Does anybody knows if you have to remove the whole side mirror to paint it, or you can just remove the Plastics? My problem is that i don't want to remove the inside door panel at all...

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Mon 27 Apr, 2015 16:24

Two options.... you can remove the mirror from the outside but you will still have the wiring connection to deal with. At that point you could pull the wiring as far out as you can, cut and create 2 new connections to re-fit it. The other option is to remove the door card, which you would rather not do...

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Mon 27 Apr, 2015 17:26

Pffff got it, i will remove the door card... it's just that the clips and all that stuff are very sensitive.

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Mon 27 Apr, 2015 17:48

Use a large two pronged fork so that the 2 tines are one on each side of the clip - then lever it outwards...

Brian4 · Post by **Brian4** » Mon 27 Apr, 2015 18:15

If the door car clips break some here and they ship to Europe.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-DOOR-CLIP ... 2c661e9b59

As Southernboy says carefully with a 2 pronged plastic tool lever the clips once all out the door card lifts up.

Rafolian · Post by **Rafolian** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 06:49

Pingu,
I was referring to independant bodyshops which I have used, I would never use a BMW main stealer for paintwork or otherwise. I don't know what the main dealer labour prices are in the UK, but here in the Costa Blanca they are approx 70 euros per hour. (Have a feeling they would be considerably more!).

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:10

Rafolian wrote:Pingu,
I was referring to independant bodyshops which I have used, I would never use a BMW main stealer for paintwork or otherwise. I don't know what the main dealer labour prices are in the UK, but here in the Costa Blanca they are approx 70 euros per hour. (Have a feeling they would be considerably more!).

I was meaning the price of parts from BMW. So we both got mixed up

.

I wouldn't usually use BMW for labour, but (very surprisingly), they offered the best price last year for my respray. So, it's always worth asking the question.

I definitely wouldn't be using a dealer in the OP's situation. You had might as well have a Euro bonfire if you did that

.

The prices for labour seem very good in Southern Europe. If I needed a full respray and a holiday in the sun I'd consider driving to Spain or Greece at these prices

.

Rafolian · Post by **Rafolian** » Wed 29 Apr, 2015 06:38

Just an update on bodywork/painting prices abroad. A friend bought a nice Merc CLK cabrio in England and brought it to Spain. There are various small marks/blemishes, but nothing major. I gave him the address of a small local paintshop in Denia which I use. I bumped into him last night and he told me the car is being done this week, but rather than sort all the little defects individually he is having a complete respray. The cost? 1000 Euros, or approx 720 quid!

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Wed 29 Apr, 2015 06:56

Rafolian wrote:Just an update on bodywork/painting prices abroad. A friend bought a nice Merc CLK cabrio in England and brought it to Spain. There are various small marks/blemishes, but nothing major. I gave him the address of a small local paintshop in Denia which I use. I bumped into him last night and he told me the car is being done this week, but rather than sort all the little defects individually he is having a complete respray. The cost? 1000 Euros, or approx 720 quid!

same price is here too for a full respray.

back to crash news, car is still on the allignment garage in pieces, everything starts to get off the car even the exhaust, hopefully it will finish today (i don't think so) and then go to the paint shop for the exterior work... I feel like the time is stopped.. shouldn't have been already almost fixed, or is it just me?

bertiejaffa · Post by **bertiejaffa** » Wed 29 Apr, 2015 07:30

Inferno wrote:
Rafolian wrote:Just an update on bodywork/painting prices abroad. A friend bought a nice Merc CLK cabrio in England and brought it to Spain. There are various small marks/blemishes, but nothing major. I gave him the address of a small local paintshop in Denia which I use. I bumped into him last night and he told me the car is being done this week, but rather than sort all the little defects individually he is having a complete respray. The cost? 1000 Euros, or approx 720 quid!
same price is here too for a full respray.

back to crash news, car is still on the allignment garage in pieces, everything starts to get off the car even the exhaust, hopefully it will finish today (i don't think so) and then go to the paint shop for the exterior work... I feel like the time is stopped.. shouldn't have been already almost fixed, or is it just me?

Patience my friend.... My M has been in the garage / body shop for nearly 4 weeks now.... I'm chomping at the bit to get it back!

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Wed 29 Apr, 2015 07:46

Inferno wrote:
back to crash news, car is still on the allignment garage in pieces, everything starts to get off the car even the exhaust, hopefully it will finish today (i don't think so) and then go to the paint shop for the exterior work... I feel like the time is stopped.. shouldn't have been already almost fixed, or is it just me?

Depends whether you want it done quickly or done right. You can't have both!

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Wed 29 Apr, 2015 09:25

It could be worse - you could have bought a Morgan! A friend's 4 year old Morgan went to a body shop for treatment of large carbuncles on most body panels - not properly primed - and after removing ALL the panels for stripping, it was found that the ash body frame was wet-rotted at its lower ends. It took abut three months for Morgan to supply a new body frame, which is now being replaced. Typically, Morgan deny all reponsibility or interest. My friend may well hang himslef when he gets the bill . . .

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Wed 29 Apr, 2015 09:39

Mike Fishwick wrote:My friend may well hang himslef when he gets the bill . . .

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Thu 30 Apr, 2015 15:43

Another delay, something is wrong with the used trailing arm, brake caliper doesn't fit correctly, they will have to find another one... pffff

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Mon 04 May, 2015 16:25

car was finished today from the alignment garage and went to the body-paint garage, i paid them an extra 50€ for a part for the "new trailing" arm which i don't know how you call it in english, anyway i went earlier today to see it in the paint shop and a new shock waited me there, the wheel they fixed is now straighten like new BUT it is 2-3 cm inside the fender, it's like the right spacer is 2-3 cm thiner than the left one!?!? How on earth is this even possible since they changed the axle carrier and the trailing arm?

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Mon 04 May, 2015 17:15

Is it a replacement wheel? If so, the offset could be different.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Mon 04 May, 2015 17:32

No, the wheel "alloy rim# is the same! It wasn't damaged, we just replaced the axle carrier and the right trailing arm, nothing more

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Tue 05 May, 2015 08:38

You mentioned spacers - if you are running spacers, are you sure they've refitted the one to that side?

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Tue 05 May, 2015 08:51

yes, it's not going THAT musch inside the fender...

i am really dissapointed and tired with that car, i love it so much and in the same time it has given me such a hard time all these years. not to mention that i have spend 30-40k € (with the purchase) for a 1996 1.8... At this point all i am thinking is getting rid of it.
The absolut dissapointment. i cannot understand how it's possible to put a new axle and trailing arm and still the wheel is wrong...

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Tue 05 May, 2015 09:28

You need to get under it with a tape measure and compare the two sides to see where the discrepancy is. How have you spent quite so much money on it? I assume you must have bought it from new?

Also, trailing arms are easily damaged - did they check that the replacement was not bent before fitting it?

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Tue 05 May, 2015 09:57

they will do it, i don't do staff like that, i have already paid them 600€ and still isn't fixed. The only logical possibility is that. The trailing arm maybe bented i don't know.

I bought the car on 2007 used with 120.000km, for about 19.000€

rest of the money is for fixes, upgrades, etc. etc.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Wed 06 May, 2015 12:22

I sent again the car to the alignment garage, they told me now that they made a mistake and the trailing arm was from a E36 Compact, however as you all know Z3 trailing arms and compact trailing arms are the same, EXCEPT from 323ti trailing arms which have different part number, is it possible that this trailing arm was from a 323ti and that's why it was shorter or it should be the way around? If it was from a 323ti it should have been longer? i am trying to understand if they are lying or not...

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Wed 06 May, 2015 13:04

I don't think they are lying as they have admitted making a mistake.

You have to be very careful when you use salvaged parts, especially if they are not from identical cars. That said, it is still my preferred place to go for most non-serviceable parts.

We are very lucky that we can use RealOEM to confirm that parts are the same.

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Wed 06 May, 2015 13:45

An almost wise man once said:- "When you get to a fork in the road, take it".......
It may be useful to consider asking Spurs Fan in a Coupe, firstly if he has the correct part from one of the cars he is stripping, and then look at the cost of shipping to Greece. It will take all the "doubts" you and your mechanics have out of the equation... Also, although it is slow, and if you have time to spare the car, you can ask for it to be sent by "surface mail" - (by sea)...
Alternately do a search on eBay for "BMW Z3 1.8 Breaking for parts"........ you can contact the advertiser and ask for pricing / shipping.

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Wed 06 May, 2015 13:50

According to RealOem the trailing arm for a 1997 M43 Z3 is the same as on the M44 z3 and the E36 compact 316i (M43) and 318ti (M44).

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Wed 06 May, 2015 14:27

Thanks for the replies. No time to order parts from other country i have already planned a trip in 2 weeks from now.
I called the mechanic earlier to tell him that i know that all rear axle parts from E36 compact are the same with the Z3, he told me that the new trailing arm just arrived and it is not the same as the wrong one they installed, it is longer by some cm, wtf is going on? I start to believe that the "wrong" compact trailing arm wasn't incompatible, it was actually bented or damaged...

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Wed 06 May, 2015 15:12

Inferno wrote:I called the mechanic earlier to tell him that i know that all rear axle parts from E36 compact are the same with the Z3

Not all - the 323ti is not compatible, and only the 4 cylinder Z3s (as per my post above). To be honest, unless you're willing to go to the workshop with a tape measure and do some investigation, we are all just guessing. Which is fine, but not getting you any further forward.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Thu 07 May, 2015 10:46

The wheel with the second trailing arm from Z3 is better now but still 8mm inside the fender comparing to the other side, he can do nothing more, i will take it to my mechanic who knows the car (this one was proposed from the paint shop because it is close to him and i don't have to drive the car back and forth between the 2 garages), i already talked with him he will see some things he want (alignment measure in X format and staff like that) and then he will tell me what is wrong, he is thinking of chassis problem although it is very little chance or even the second trailing arm is bented too.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Sat 09 May, 2015 15:08

As the days passes all my possibilities to find the problem are expiring. Wheel is still going inside the fender by 8mm comparing to the other. I still have some things to check but in the end i think i will end up making one bigger spacer in that wheel.

And here is the question, is it safe and ok to use asymmetrical spacers in the same axle?

I remind you i already have 45mm spacers on each wheel, so i will have to install 45mm on one wheel and 53 on the other.

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Sun 10 May, 2015 19:40

I'd be more interested in finding out why there's a difference, but if you are happy to ignore a potential suspension fault and just worry about the asthetics, I can't imaging an extra 8mm on a spacer will make any difference.

bertiejaffa · Post by **bertiejaffa** » Sun 10 May, 2015 19:56

Just a thought... could it be that the fender is 8mm out somehow rather than the wheel?

At the end of the day 8mm is not a great distance and would only take a couple of extremely minor defects in the fit to make the 8mm difference at the most extreme point? Personally I would find the middle point on the axel and then measure out from there to both wheels, if that is identical then its more likely the shell thats not quite fitted or repaired correctly.

Ultimately if the car runs and feels fine then I would not worry.

Inferno · Post by **Inferno** » Mon 11 May, 2015 06:19

i have searched everything possible, the fender is correct, the chassis is ok, the rear topmounts are perfect (i mean the chassis mounts). Ofcourse i will not stop searching what the problem is, i am asking to see if AT LEAST i have 1 working solution in case i never find the problem: a bigger spacer on one wheel.

i will visit today-tomorrow a very good mechanic i know which i should have visited in the first place, i believe that the "new" axle carrier or the trailing arm are slightly bented too...