Engine won't start - and it's not the battery!

[Simon59]

Hi Guys

I wonder if anyone out there has heard of a similar problem to mine?

I have a 1999 Z3 1.9 with 86K miles on the clock that won’t start. I turn the key and I just get a single click from under the bonnet. I’ve replaced the battery with a new one and checked that its fully charged so it’s not that. The puzzling thing is that this fault only started a month or so ago and it was intermittent (I would turn the key and it clicked, and then turn it again and it started) but now it won’t start at all. I've checked for loose connections, corrosion, etc. I can't find anything wrong. Someone suggested the key so I replaced the battery in the key too but no change.

I'm at my wits end about this now and having spent the best part of a grand on her since I bought the car late last year, it's a bit frustrating too. I've tried to get a local mobile mechanic out, but they don't reply to my calls or emails (Wilmslow, Cheshire area), so any help you guys can give me would be much appreciated. I know that I'm weak in the diagnostics department, having only had company cars in the past and old British and Italian motorbikes!

Thanks in advance for reading this.

Cheers, Simon

[BladeRunner919]

Sounds like a faulty starter motor. See if you can get someone to bang it while you turn the key.

[varptr]

Yes, I vote for that too, can't go wrong with a hammer!
Or it could be the solenoid (I think these days they are built into the starter motor, I'm a bit out of touch ).
Does the interior light go dim when you turn the key?

[Brian H]

Doe sound like a started motor issue, can you bump start it?

[peter2b]

try bump starting it or put it into gear then rock it back and forth just in case the starter has jammed, or as above hit the starter with the correct size hammer
peter2b

[Mike Fishwick]

It could also be poor connections at the battery terminals and / or the earth strap's connection tothe body. Do all the lights dim when this problem occurs, or does the oil pressure light go out ?

Fault diagnosis by internet forum is usually a waste of time - you should buy a voltmeter and learn how to use it - car electrics are not white mans magic, really! Just measuring the voltage at the battery and across the starter motor would tell a lot.

[therealdb1]

I had similar issues a month ago. Just after its winter lay-up turn the key and the engine did not spin. Try several times and then it would start.
As Mike suggests, a simple bit of Holmes and Watson with my eyes and fingers and I found a loose connection at the battery. Not the battery connection itself but a secondary wire from it and with the lack of use this had become oxidised. Cleaned the wire, tightened the connection and hey presto! If you have replaced the battery then you will have disturbed the connection that I refer to.
If you check that volts are getting to the starter motor then it is almost certainly the starter motor itself or the integrated solenoid. Since you mention that this has been intermittent for a while I suggest poor solenoid contacts or worn brushes in the motor itself which can no longer make contact with the commutator.
A tap with a hammer may get you started once or twice but you will have to bite the bullet and replace the starter. A friendly breaker should be able to assist wit a replacement but do some basic investigation first.

[bertiejaffa]

I agree, a click usually means a faulty starter motor. The fact that there is a click steers me away from the battery and its connections but for the sake of 30 seconds lifting the boot carpet you will be able to check it properly. As mentioned, if it will bump start then it is definitely the starter motor. I sure spursfaninacoupe will have half a dozen in his garage

[Simon59]

Thanks Guys for your quick and helpful responses

When I get home tonight, I'll try the hammer tapping approach. I have rocked the car backwards and forwards in gear, but that didn't change anything and I don't have the ability to try to bump start her - I have a shoulder problem after being knocked off my (ex) motorbike last summer.

Mike, the dashboard lights do dim slightly, but I take your point on board and will order a voltmeter online tonight and try to improve my electrical ignorance by testing the battery and starter motor later in the week. I'm sure the battery's good and tight but I'll double-double check!

Cheers, Simon

[Robert T]

If you can wait until the weekend, I can bring my computer to do some diagnostics for you - I'm only a few miles from Wilmslow.

From what you describe, it could be a number of things, but my first guess would be the immobiliser. If you have a second key, then try that. If not, then I can test that the immobiliser is reading the key correctly using my diagnostic software. The battery in the key is for the alarm/remote locking only, it is not used for the immobiliser chip - there is an induction loop in the ignition barrel. Another known problem is the ignition barrel itself, which can break and start to spin freely, this might be a first sign of it going.

Incidentally BMW do not recommend bump starting Z3's - it's jump start or nothing.

Cheers R.

[Simon59]

Morning all!

Well, tried tapping the starter motor and solenoid with a hide hammer, nothing. Ditto when my wife was turning the key whilst I tapped it. Rocked the car back and forth again, but just a click for my efforts (bad shoulder remember!) The only new thing is that there is a distinct humming noise from the starter motor/solenoid which continues for about 10 seconds after the ignition is switched off. I guess you have to know how this mechanism really works to know what that could be...

So I've ordered a voltmeter from Amazon and will check that the battery is OK (which I'm sure it is) and the solenoid too and any other connections I can get to whilst I'm at it.

Robert, if you could do some diagnostics on the car over the weekend I'd be very grateful! I only got one key with the car, so before I spend £100 on a new starter motor I'd really like to eliminate any less obvious (but more subtle) problems. How do I let you know where I live on this forum? I'm happy to give you my address and mobile number but is that allowed?

Thanks again guys for your interest and help. I'm sure she'll be working again soon before the Summer runs out!

Simon

.

[BladeRunner919]

Doesn't sound like immobiliser or key barrel to me. The click and the dimming lights on the dash suggest that the current is being applied to the starter, but it isn't turning.

[Robert T]

It may not be the immobiliser, but the diagnostics will at least rule that out.

A humming noise is normal on the M44, but it is not from the starter motor. It comes from much higher up on the engine on the intake manifold/throttle body. It does indeed continue for a few minutes after the ignition is switched off.

I have the same 1.9 model as you, so you can compare noises against mine.

Please send me your address/phone number by private message (PM). I'm always a little wary of handing out such things, but sometimes it is necessary. Items are bought and sold and meets organised on here, so it is certainly not against forum rules.

Cheers R.

[Simon59]

PM Sent

[peter2b]

I thought I had the same, left mine on a charger last night as the engine doesn't get run often, went to start it at 12 for the Vic check and it just clicked, checked the volts on the battery 9.75 either I didn't connect the charger correctly or for got to turn it on but a quick jump from my other car started first turn of the key , hope it starts when they do the Vic check sitting here with crossed fingers
peter2b

[colb]

If it was charged and it remained that low then it would seem battery has died, jump starting it would also seem to rule out any other problem with the starter circuit.
New battery will probably sort it.

Colb

[peter2b]

yep I'm getting a new battery in morning, got through the Vic check OK but the dvla hadn't got the info through from the vosa office so I can't tax her till Saturday or Monday then happy days,swmbo had got trips already planned

[gookah]

any luck Simon?

[Simon59]

Sadly no.

Robert very kindly came over on Saturday afternoon and using his diagnostic package he eliminated any immobiliser problem.

I used my new multi meter to check the battery and Robert confirmed that everything was OK in that department.

So it's the starter motor. Which lots of you guys said it was!

I think this is a job beyond my capabilities, but none of the local mobile mechanics seem to be interested. I might have to dig deep and have the car towed to my local BMW garage!

Cheers Simon

[Southernboy]

Removing the starter is pretty simple.
1. Disconnect the battery.
2. remove the guide tube for the dipstick
3. disconnect wiring connection to the S/Motor
4. remove the 2 bolts securing the S/Motor. Remove the top one from above and the lower one from under the car.
5. Rotate the S/Motor until the solenoid is at the top and remove the S/Motor
6. Installation is the reverse of the above...

The item is fairly heavy, so be aware to have a good hold on it. It may be advisable to give the work area around the motor a good clean before you start the task.

No "special tools required... Jack and jack stands and spanners.... Probably wise to source a replacement part before starting, or if you reckon your existing part is repairable, go that route. In fact, it may well be something very basic like the brush connectors onto the motor that need replacing....

[Simon59]

Thanks for the step-by-step procedure Southernboy, it all seems very logical and do-able. Unfortunately, I don't have axle stands (remember that I'm relatively new to working on my own car. Motorcycles, my previous passion, don't need axle stands!). So a mobile engineer is coming to swap out the starter motor tomorrow whilst I'm at work

I'll post up the results, but interestingly the current motor looks quite new (what I can see of it) so maybe the previous owner bought a cheap one which has failed early.

Thanks again, Simon

[Southernboy]

Pleasure Simon........at least you know it's not a complicated task, and your mechanic shouldn't be able to fool you with any nonsense about the job...
Barry

[peter2b]

Im a bit late but if you still need them i have 4 axel stands and a 2.5 ton jack + i think im not too far from you (whitchurch) if you want to borrow them pm me and i can drop tbem off to you
peter2b

[Simon59]

That's very kind of you peter2b, but the die is cast now and a mobile mechanic called Lewis is coming around tomorrow to replace the starter motor.

I may be back in touch if it doesn't work (what a nice, kind bunch you are on this forum) but I'll post what happened so if it's fixed others might benefit from my experience

All the best for now, Simon

[Simon59]

Well, it was the starter motor...

New (or reconditioned) Lucas starter motor fitted today by mobile mechanic LCJ Auto Repairs (lewis@lcjautorepairs.co.uk based in Poynton) and she started up first turn of the key.

The failed motor looked new, so it must have been fitted not long before I bought her in November 2014. It was made by RTX. Beware cheap parts!

Thanks to everyone who gave me their advice, but in particular to Robert T who gave up his Saturday afternoon to run a diagnostics check on the car.

So now I'm back on the road again! Looking forward to a blast around the North York Moors mid-June!

All the best, Simon

[Robert T]

Fantastic news, Simon. Well worth giving up an hour or two to see you back on the road. Hope we get some decent weather soon and you can get out and enjoy the wind in your hair!

Cheers R.

[colb]

The failed one RTX is a Europarts replacement
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RTX-Standard- ... 4d1b909d6f

Colb

[Simon59]

I think you can guess how I would rate this product to any potential buyers out there!

Buy cheap, buy twice as the saying goes...