Track day brakes!

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster

Moderator: Gazza

Post Reply
Bonzo
Joined: Wed 21 Mar, 2012 21:52
Posts: 859

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Norfolk

Track day brakes!

Post by Bonzo » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 00:44

As some of you may know, (BMWCC magazine, April this year page 32) my first track day was an absolute blast, until that is,my brakes started to smell quite badly! I have booked the same track day next year so need to upgrade the brakes, (along with the suspension a bit more) to hopefully last the day out this year! Speaking to my son, he recommended drilled and grooved front discs, uprated pads all round ( EBC yellowstuff ? ) and Dot 5 brake fluid. .........What do you think guys?

Bonzo.
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 07:38

Bonzo wrote:As some of you may know, (BMWCC magazine, April this year page 32) my first track day was an absolute blast, until that is,my brakes started to smell quite badly! I have booked the same track day next year so need to upgrade the brakes, (along with the suspension a bit more) to hopefully last the day out this year! Speaking to my son, he recommended drilled and grooved front discs, uprated pads all round ( EBC yellowstuff ? ) and Dot 5 brake fluid. .........What do you think guys?

Bonzo.
I have grooved discs on the front of my car, I had read that drilled can have some issues with cracking. Certainly upgrade your fluid, this will stop the brake fade, I have had dot 5 in my car for a couple of years now. New pads all round will serve you well, make sure you bed them in properly though, I had some success with yellow stuff but they would wear quickly so eventually opted for the blues, If it is just the single day you are doing then I think the yellows will be fine.

See you on track :)

Bonzo
Joined: Wed 21 Mar, 2012 21:52
Posts: 859

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Norfolk

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Bonzo » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:45

Thanks Brian. What make of front discs did you fit.? Do you think just changing the brake fluid to Dot 5 and fitting uprated pads would be sufficient for one track day? The engine is standard a 2.8, so I'm not going to tear up the track, but I will change the discs if you think I should.
Yes, see you at the track, looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Bonzo
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
Posts: 636

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by motco » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 14:37

As budget track day pads EB Bluestuff work well on my son's Z4M Coupé along with Racing Blue fluid or Motul DOT 5.1 fluid. A Z4M C is a beast of a car and he drives it hard on circuit with no serious loss of braking. To help he has installed a cooling duct arrangement from either side of the lower grille where underbumper fogs might be, and leads it through trunking to the disc area. This has reduced the tendency to soften the pedal on hot fast runs on circuit. Yellowstuff pads didn't meet the need as well as Bluestuff and one pad even became detached from the metal carrier! :?

My 2.2 Z3 Sport Roadster's brakes dived for cover almost immediately on an airfield day one December so the standard Z3 brakes, whilst fine for the road, are quite inadequate for track use.

User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 17:50
Posts: 4031

  M roadster S50

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by c_w » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 21:31

Bluestuff is a good road pad - feels strong and wear is low, but for me I got judder on track. I find Yellowstuff a better all-round pad.

Don't forget your rear pads! When you start braking really heavily, the rear brakes get a workout too - I'd get Yellowstuff rears in any case/choice for the front. I run these on my Coupe at the moment, it's a nice lowish dust pad.

User avatar
Zed Free
Joined: Mon 12 Nov, 2012 20:23
Posts: 69

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Zed Free » Fri 20 Nov, 2015 09:02

What diameter are the fronts on a 2.8? I believe they are the same as my 2.2 and can be easily upgraded to those of the 3.0 simply needing the new bracket for the caliper and obviously the new discs. If you are getting new discs anyway I would recommend this mod. I did it earlier this year, very easy to do, just takes a while of watching eBay for the right part.
Zed Free. - 2.2 Titanium Edition.
Image

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Fri 20 Nov, 2015 09:27

Zed Free wrote:What diameter are the fronts on a 2.8? I believe they are the same as my 2.2 and can be easily upgraded to those of the 3.0 simply needing the new bracket for the caliper and obviously the new discs. If you are getting new discs anyway I would recommend this mod. I did it earlier this year, very easy to do, just takes a while of watching eBay for the right part.
2.8 = 286 x 22mm Front Discs
3.0 = 300 x 22mm Front Discs

I have a full conversion kit available if anyone is interested? The conversion will fit 1.9 through to the 2.8.
  • Calipers
    Caliper Brackets
    Discs
Just a bolt on option :)

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Fri 20 Nov, 2015 09:37

Bonzo wrote:Thanks Brian. What make of front discs did you fit.? Do you think just changing the brake fluid to Dot 5 and fitting uprated pads would be sufficient for one track day? The engine is standard a 2.8, so I'm not going to tear up the track, but I will change the discs if you think I should.
Yes, see you at the track, looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Bonzo
I used the Brembo grooved discs (link below) and tbh did a really good job, if you are going down the route of EBC then they will do a package of discs and pads.

ebay link

User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
Posts: 636

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by motco » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:06

Remember to switch off DSC or the brakes will be cooked as it tries to correct what it sees as reckless driving!

User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 17:50
Posts: 4031

  M roadster S50

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by c_w » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 20:27

Good tip, though the 2.8 used the old ASC which doesn't brake wheels, just reduces power (crudely).

Bonzo
Joined: Wed 21 Mar, 2012 21:52
Posts: 859

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Norfolk

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Bonzo » Wed 24 Feb, 2016 00:19

Well, I got the brakes upgraded and new suspension fitted. Got her all fettled and nice for the Snetterton track day!.............And then went down with some sort of chest and throat infection, so too ill to do the track day! :head: Sod's law or what? And it was a fine day. :x
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Wed 24 Feb, 2016 21:36

Yep it was a great day, look at what you missed :shock:

Image

A wee trip off in to the green green grass of Snetterton:)

spurs fan in a coupe
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2008 20:24
Posts: 1435

  Z3 coupe 2.8
Location: woking

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by spurs fan in a coupe » Wed 11 May, 2016 19:58

OK admittedly on a 1.9 rather than a heavy 6 pot, I'm looking for advice on brakes for track days.

I had red stuff on my coupe and never really bonded with them, never stopped at sharp as I'd expect for the price. On my old clio 172 track car I had ds2500, they were amazing, but never lasted long. Had Carbo Lorraines on the clio too, just as good as the brembos.

Any advice from regular track dayers? I've done a fair few days now, saxo VTR, Clio 172 and MKII escort, in my new z3 with coilovers and some decent track tyres I'm hoping to push it as hard as it'll go! Famous last words!
we expres: " He did hear the bells ringing, but doesnt know where where the clapper hangs".

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Wed 11 May, 2016 21:01

I found EBC blues to be durable Andy but the rears have not been passed for road use :wink: a good bite when cold and would stand up to some abuse. I did not get on with the ds2500, they just did not inspire confidence for me.

I hear a lot of good press with EBC yellows but I could only get one track day from them :oops:

With all the cars you scrap do you have the brakes from a 2.8 sitting around? Calipers, discs and carriers? This will be a bolt on option for you and give you a bigger front disc.

If you can cool the brakes, I have found that heat from prolonged sessions on track eats up pads, since adding cooling ducts I have halved the number of pads I use.

User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 17:50
Posts: 4031

  M roadster S50

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by c_w » Wed 11 May, 2016 21:03

I used to find Yellowstuff lasted quite well on my Coupe.

I didn't like DS2500 in mine, juddered a lot when hot. Bluestuff also found they juddered, but sometimes it's pot luck/mystery.

I don't get the point of Redstuff pads, try Yellowstuff it's EBC's best pad IME, I prefer it to Blue and Orangestuff. Quite cheap, last a while, no judder, lowish dust, great road manners etc. Get them fitted front and rear, the rear pads are used a fair amount.

spurs fan in a coupe
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2008 20:24
Posts: 1435

  Z3 coupe 2.8
Location: woking

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by spurs fan in a coupe » Wed 11 May, 2016 21:37

Brian, Chris,

Thanks for the feedback.

Sounds like yellows may be the way to go.

Yes I have 2.8 set up I can use from a scrap car. Guessing with carriers a straight bolt on (with new discs), I would obviously be changing the fluid anyway.

Do the rears take so much abuse as it is so tail happy/rear wheel drive, my clio never touched the rears despite braking late and hard, must say I way tempted to just do the fronts.
we expres: " He did hear the bells ringing, but doesnt know where where the clapper hangs".

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Wed 11 May, 2016 21:52

yes the carriers from the 2.8 bolt straight on, the piston size in the caliper is the same size as the 1.9 caliper so no issues with brake bias etc. I put high temp brake fluid in also :)

If you have Traction control, turn it off the the rears do not get as much abuse.

spurs fan in a coupe
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2008 20:24
Posts: 1435

  Z3 coupe 2.8
Location: woking

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by spurs fan in a coupe » Wed 11 May, 2016 21:54

What suspension you on Brian? This car I've picked up has ST coilovers
we expres: " He did hear the bells ringing, but doesnt know where where the clapper hangs".

User avatar
stevov
Joined: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 15:56
Posts: 167

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Contact:

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by stevov » Thu 12 May, 2016 07:15

Image[/URL[URL=http://s718.photobucket.com/user/stevov ... R.jpg.html]Image
I have this set available about 1000 miles on them. 50 quid posted

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Thu 12 May, 2016 07:31

spurs fan in a coupe wrote:What suspension you on Brian? This car I've picked up has ST coilovers
BC Racing - BR Series Coilovers, 6kg front spring 8kg rear spring.

User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 17:50
Posts: 4031

  M roadster S50

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by c_w » Thu 12 May, 2016 21:51

spurs fan in a coupe wrote:Brian, Chris,

Thanks for the feedback.

Sounds like yellows may be the way to go.

Yes I have 2.8 set up I can use from a scrap car. Guessing with carriers a straight bolt on (with new discs), I would obviously be changing the fluid anyway.

Do the rears take so much abuse as it is so tail happy/rear wheel drive, my clio never touched the rears despite braking late and hard, must say I way tempted to just do the fronts.
I used to track a 205GTi with Mi16 engine, rear brakes hardly did anything on that, all about the front as there's no rear drivetrain/weight to slow down. On my M Coupe the front brakes obviously do most of the braking, but the rears do a lot too. On an early trackday I did I wore out a new set of standard rear pads in a day down to nothing. I've currently got Yellowstuff on the rear with Pagid RS29 front, a good combination IMO; the yellow is a good rear pad as they shouldn't fade, last well on track but aren't crazy money like the RS29 are.

User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
Posts: 636

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by motco » Sat 14 May, 2016 10:28

I'll just leave this here with no further comment...

Image

Except to say that you are looking at the friction face of both pads!

User avatar
Brian H
zroadster sponsor
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2502

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by Brian H » Sat 14 May, 2016 18:39

motco wrote:I'll just leave this here with no further comment...

Image

Except to say that you are looking at the friction face of both pads!
This is why I mentioned brake duct cooling :)

spurs fan in a coupe
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2008 20:24
Posts: 1435

  Z3 coupe 2.8
Location: woking

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by spurs fan in a coupe » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 20:51

Brian H wrote:yes the carriers from the 2.8 bolt straight on, the piston size in the caliper is the same size as the 1.9 caliper so no issues with brake bias etc. I put high temp brake fluid in also :)

If you have Traction control, turn it off the the rears do not get as much abuse.
Just to be clear for anyone looking at doing this, you need the 6 cyl calipers too as the on the 1.9 ones, the piston can't be pushed back far enough to clear the pads and deeper discs.
we expres: " He did hear the bells ringing, but doesnt know where where the clapper hangs".

spurs fan in a coupe
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2008 20:24
Posts: 1435

  Z3 coupe 2.8
Location: woking

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by spurs fan in a coupe » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 20:51

stevov wrote:Image[/URL[URL=http://s718.photobucket.com/user/stevov ... R.jpg.html]Image
I have this set available about 1000 miles on them. 50 quid posted
They were just the job mate, the 1.9 held up really well on track last weekend.
we expres: " He did hear the bells ringing, but doesnt know where where the clapper hangs".

User avatar
stevov
Joined: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 15:56
Posts: 167

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Contact:

Re: Track day brakes!

Post by stevov » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 21:36

Good to hear. Glad you enjoyed them.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 6 guests