Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tree

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Del
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Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tree

Post by Del » Fri 16 Sep, 2016 22:46

Dropped the Z3 off for an MOT today (no warning lights on dash) and get a call later saying that the car had failed owing to some ABS fault. It was alleged that by the tester simply driving the car from the MOT car park to the ramp (about 10 metres) for the emissions test, the ABS & ASC+T lights had suddenly come on.

Despite my annoyance and suggestion that some aggressive braking must have caused this, I was assured that this was not the case. When I started the car and drove a few metres, the lights went out. After some “negotiation” a free retest was agreed and a pass certificate was issued. What a fuss – I have no idea what could have caused this?

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motco
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by motco » Sat 17 Sep, 2016 07:57

I have no idea I'm afraid but I would keep an eye on the situation and put worrying on hold until and unless it happens to you in normal use. Oh, and go elsewhere for MoT in future!

wifevanda
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by wifevanda » Sat 17 Sep, 2016 09:55

Agreed.I have had some interesting experiences with them .

mrscalex
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by mrscalex » Sun 18 Sep, 2016 07:19

I'm afraid Del this was caused by you taking your car to a bunch of cowboys if you see what I mean. Although to be totally fair those sensors/lights do have a habit of going on and off. I managed to briefly illuminate mine recently from jet washing the alloys. But the thing is if it was a reputable garage you'd trust what they say.

When I was about 19 I took my Mk I Escort into one of those places for an exhaust check/quote. They tried to kidnap my car until I agreed to have the work done by refusing to bring it down off the ramps. These days I would create a scene if someone did that to me. But they picked on me as I was a kid back then - not nice.
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1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
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John Wilson
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by John Wilson » Sun 18 Sep, 2016 08:57

I think we're being a bit unfair to Kwik Fit. It's more BMWs fault for having such tempremental sensors. I take my wheel sensors out and clean them at least once a year to stop the lights going on together with the limp mode. If this happens in a Kwik Fit or other garage, they have to fail it if it shows the ABS is not working. Don't blame he messenger.

Del
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by Del » Sun 18 Sep, 2016 09:33

The shock for me was that my ABS system has not been troublesome in the past and the garage said that the lights came on when they drove it from their outside car park to their ramp – a distance of about 10 metres. Also, the manual says the ABS system does not initiate below 5 mph – so I found it a rather odd and surprising coincidence. :shrug

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dennisedlin
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by dennisedlin » Sun 18 Sep, 2016 10:21

Regardless, the best defence is not to use a " garage" for an MOT. They have a vested interest in failing the car in the hope that you will give them repair work. I'm not saying that all garages behave this way, but unless you have 100% faith in a particular establishment then just use a dedicated MOT test centre. I have had too many garages fail cars in the UK only to find that the work required was unnecessary or worse actually created during the test. Here in Spain all MOT's (ITV) are carried out by dedicated stations.
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tfp
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by tfp » Sun 18 Sep, 2016 12:22

It's happened to me before with a VW, I think in my case it was the brakes being tested in the rollers.

I thought if my car was to develop a fault then best it on a test rather than out on the road.

But I would never use a fast fit centre for anything, pure money making machines.

Find a local garage that comes recommended and that would actually care about their reputation.

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motco
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by motco » Mon 19 Sep, 2016 07:36

tfp wrote:It's happened to me before with a VW, I think in my case it was the brakes being tested in the rollers.

I thought if my car was to develop a fault then best it on a test rather than out on the road.

But I would never use a fast fit centre for anything, pure money making machines.

Find a local garage that comes recommended and that would actually care about their reputation.
They're not necessarily any better in my experience. My son took his S2000 to just such a garage in a local town - long established and experienced across all makes - and they removed his rear ABS sensors while changing driveshaft joints. So violently did they pull the cables that both were open circuit when we got the car back. :head:

tfp
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by tfp » Mon 19 Sep, 2016 15:46

motco wrote:
tfp wrote:It's happened to me before with a VW, I think in my case it was the brakes being tested in the rollers.

I thought if my car was to develop a fault then best it on a test rather than out on the road.

But I would never use a fast fit centre for anything, pure money making machines.

Find a local garage that comes recommended and that would actually care about their reputation.
They're not necessarily any better in my experience. My son took his S2000 to just such a garage in a local town - long established and experienced across all makes - and they removed his rear ABS sensors while changing driveshaft joints. So violently did they pull the cables that both were open circuit when we got the car back. :head:
I'm sure they put it right didn't they?

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motco
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by motco » Mon 19 Sep, 2016 16:11

tfp wrote:
motco wrote:
tfp wrote:It's happened to me before with a VW, I think in my case it was the brakes being tested in the rollers.

I thought if my car was to develop a fault then best it on a test rather than out on the road.

But I would never use a fast fit centre for anything, pure money making machines.

Find a local garage that comes recommended and that would actually care about their reputation.
They're not necessarily any better in my experience. My son took his S2000 to just such a garage in a local town - long established and experienced across all makes - and they removed his rear ABS sensors while changing driveshaft joints. So violently did they pull the cables that both were open circuit when we got the car back. :head:
I'm sure they put it right didn't they?
'fraid not! When we collected it they said that one of the rears was showing a fault despite cleaning the reluctor ring (second hand shafts). Could be the sensor but if we got one he'd fit it FOC. When we discovered that they were £120 each from Honda and dead easy to fit we went straight to Ebay. It would be difficult to show that the workshop caused the failure anyway. Unfortunately the first sensor that arrived (one of a pair in the sale from a US source) was no good and we got a part-refund. At this point we didn't know that both sensors on the car were duff but in proving that the one we received was dead we measured the resistance of both the duff one and the presumed 'good' left hand one on the car and the second one of the pair from the Ebay purchase. Both ones on the car were O/C and only the left hand one from Ebay showed correct values! Google and S2000 forums suggested a resistance value in (I think) the mid-100s of Ohms maximum. A further foray into Ebay produced a pair from Australia of all places - my son was trying to sell the car to go and live in Sydney so it was ironic. Eventually we (or just me by this time as he'd already left for the Antipodes) fitted the Australian ones and all was well. So many times I've used 'professionals' and the outcome has been less than ideal that I use them only when absolutely necessary. If you are having difficulty sleeping I'll regale you with my tales of Henlys and my company Leyland Princess's ills and ailments. In medical circles the term 'iatrogenic' means a condition brought about by a doctor or their treatment, not the patient's disease. It applies to workshop technicians in spades! Cynic? Moi? :?

tfp
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by tfp » Mon 19 Sep, 2016 16:53

motco wrote:
'fraid not! When we collected it they said that one of the rears was showing a fault despite cleaning the reluctor ring (second hand shafts). Could be the sensor but if we got one he'd fit it FOC. When we discovered that they were £120 each from Honda and dead easy to fit we went straight to Ebay. It would be difficult to show that the workshop caused the failure anyway. Unfortunately the first sensor that arrived (one of a pair in the sale from a US source) was no good and we got a part-refund. At this point we didn't know that both sensors on the car were duff but in proving that the one we received was dead we measured the resistance of both the duff one and the presumed 'good' left hand one on the car and the second one of the pair from the Ebay purchase. Both ones on the car were O/C and only the left hand one from Ebay showed correct values! Google and S2000 forums suggested a resistance value in (I think) the mid-100s of Ohms maximum. A further foray into Ebay produced a pair from Australia of all places - my son was trying to sell the car to go and live in Sydney so it was ironic. Eventually we (or just me by this time as he'd already left for the Antipodes) fitted the Australian ones and all was well. So many times I've used 'professionals' and the outcome has been less than ideal that I use them only when absolutely necessary. If you are having difficulty sleeping I'll regale you with my tales of Henlys and my company Leyland Princess's ills and ailments. In medical circles the term 'iatrogenic' means a condition brought about by a doctor or their treatment, not the patient's disease. It applies to workshop technicians in spades! Cynic? Moi? :?
Yup, sounds like they messed up and didn't want to fork out for the new sensors. You won't be recommending them to anyone.

We're lucky round here, got a few independents that are really good. And of course a couple that everyone knows to avoid.

And it's funny that the not so good ones are the ones that have the largest adverts in the local papers each week. Because they don't keep their customers??

I too have had loads of poor experiences, been in the motor trade for 28 years now, so we could spend many an hour sharing stories.

The poorest experiences I've had, and heard of, are fast fit centres, closely followed by main dealers.

The real problem is that the motor trade goes largely un regulated. Trading standards are next to useless, they don't want to do any real work. One local garage here is really badly ripping people off, yet they are still trading.

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OldskoolRS
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by OldskoolRS » Mon 19 Sep, 2016 20:03

motco wrote:So many times I've used 'professionals' and the outcome has been less than ideal that I use them only when absolutely necessary.
Same here, though it's usually with regard to my company car so I have no choice but to us the 'professionals'. That's why I do all my own servicing work on my Z3 and I reckon it's better maintained than it would be if I just took it to some backstreet garage. However, I would then have a service 'stamp' in the book which seemed more important to one potential buyer I talked to recently, which is frustrating.

I also take it to a place that just does MOTs which we've used for years for my OH's car and more recently my Z3. We used to have to go to Kwik Fit for tyres for my company car and I would cringe at some of the conversations between staff and customers I'd overhear in the reception while waiting for my tyres to be done...

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andy18n
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by andy18n » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 21:47

I've had mine MOT'd at a few different places over the years and I often get the ABS / DSC light on after. It soon goes back out again. Stopping engine and restarting quickly a couple of times seems to clear it. Never had it any other time apart from just after MOT.......
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Del
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by Del » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 23:35

If the ABS/DSC etc. lights come on and stay on, it means either that the system has identified a fault or that something external has happened to “fool” the system into believing it has identified a fault. My understanding is that rotating wheels (which are jacked up and free of the surface) with the ignition turned on, can cause the ABS system to believe it has a fault. During an MOT the wheels are jacked up free of the standing surface to check bearings and ball joints etc. Could this be the cause?

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motco
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by motco » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 07:32

Del wrote:If the ABS/DSC etc. lights come on and stay on, it means either that the system has identified a fault or that something external has happened to “fool” the system into believing it has identified a fault. My understanding is that rotating wheels (which are jacked up and free of the surface) with the ignition turned on, can cause the ABS system to believe it has a fault. During an MOT the wheels are jacked up free of the standing surface to check bearings and ball joints etc. Could this be the cause?
It could, I think. Brake testing rollers are another possibility. Mine is fitted with a Torsen LSD and doesn't go on the rollers and I've never had a warning light problem.

Benw123
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by Benw123 » Mon 03 Oct, 2016 13:11

Del wrote:Dropped the Z3 off for an MOT today (no warning lights on dash) and get a call later saying that the car had failed owing to some ABS fault. It was alleged that by the tester simply driving the car from the MOT car park to the ramp (about 10 metres) for the emissions test, the ABS & ASC+T lights had suddenly come on.

Despite my annoyance and suggestion that some aggressive braking must have caused this, I was assured that this was not the case. When I started the car and drove a few metres, the lights went out. After some “negotiation” a free retest was agreed and a pass certificate was issued. What a fuss – I have no idea what could have caused this?
This is EXACTLY what happened to my Z3 in March this year. Drove off, lights go out and then I had to wait an hour for the retest (legal requirement unfortunately). My Zed has just been SORN'd for winter so I'll look at cleaning the sensors.

The only other suggestion I guess is to forewarn the MoT tester that this is a characteristic of the car.
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billysally208
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by billysally208 » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 11:51

I've just had the ABS and ASC lights come on and stay on, on my 2000 1.9 Z after it had been standing for 6 weeks, it being fine before parking up. After reading up on it and researching the fault on the Internet the common factor with a lot of people is that it occurs after the car has been standing/stored. I checked the battery on mine and found that it was low, but capable of starting the car. I read the codes which came up with ABS pump and ASC switch failed! So for starters I recharged the battery, I then cleared the codes and the lights are now out and haven't returned.
So the conclusion I've come to is that this fault can be caused by a not fully charged battery being unable to power up the ABS/ASC pump sufficiently which subsequently throws up the fault. Certainly worth a check before opting for the more expensive options.

tfp
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Re: Kwik Fit MOT – ABS & ASC+T lights on like a Christmas tr

Post by tfp » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 17:44

billysally208 wrote:I've just had the ABS and ASC lights come on and stay on, on my 2000 1.9 Z after it had been standing for 6 weeks, it being fine before parking up. After reading up on it and researching the fault on the Internet the common factor with a lot of people is that it occurs after the car has been standing/stored. I checked the battery on mine and found that it was low, but capable of starting the car. I read the codes which came up with ABS pump and ASC switch failed! So for starters I recharged the battery, I then cleared the codes and the lights are now out and haven't returned.
So the conclusion I've come to is that this fault can be caused by a not fully charged battery being unable to power up the ABS/ASC pump sufficiently which subsequently throws up the fault. Certainly worth a check before opting for the more expensive options.
Recently started mine after the battery getting low.

Engine light on, nothing in the dash pod working, i.e. speedo, rev counter, fuel gauge.

Fitted a new battery and all back to normal.

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