Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

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Lancsbob
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2014 17:35
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Location: Ormskirk

Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by Lancsbob » Sat 07 Jan, 2017 22:11

What are the tell tale symptoms of a dual mass flywheel starting to fail?
2002 Z3 2.2 66000mls
Bob

BeemerBoyo
Joined: Mon 10 Feb, 2014 10:51
Posts: 96

  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: Teesside

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by BeemerBoyo » Sun 08 Jan, 2017 08:17

Not sure. Noise, slip and vibration I would have thought. I also have a 2.2 sport 2002 with 94,500 miles on. It's still on the original clutch and works fine. I got my independent BMW service guy to check it last year as I thought it should be replaced and he reckons I should get another 10k miles easily before it needs looking at. That's 2 years of motoring for me! He said they are pretty bomb proof from his experience.

Get yours checked out. Of course a clutch is a wear and tear item and if previous owners have been dropping the clutch off the line but if it's been used normally 66k sounds premature.

Hmm, does a Z3 have a dual mass flywheel? This is of course the part attached to the engine that the clutch engages with.

Lets see if someone with greater knowledge than me can advise.
2002 E37 BMW Z3 2.2 Sport
2008 E93 BMW 3 series 325i m sport convertible

Previous BMW cars

2007 E87 BMW 1 series 120D
2013 F21 BMW 1 series 120D

peter2b
Joined: Sat 01 Nov, 2014 18:47
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: cheshire

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by peter2b » Sun 08 Jan, 2017 09:49

my 2.2 2002 z3 has over 100,000 on the clock ,so far so good
peterz3

Lancsbob
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Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by Lancsbob » Sun 08 Jan, 2017 12:16

"Hmm, does a Z3 have a dual mass flywheel? "

Yes i think so, the last generation Z3's had them. IE 2.2 & 3.0

Bob

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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by motco » Sun 08 Jan, 2017 12:49

Failure of DMFs is more usually a diesel problem and is often caused by the massive torque and tendency of drivers to exploit that at too low a rev range. I never labour my X-Type 2.2D, and ensure that if I can sense the engine's firing strokes, I change down.

bertiejaffa
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  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by bertiejaffa » Sun 08 Jan, 2017 12:57

When my clutch went a couple of years ago it didn't have any slipping but blimey it stunk
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abh29
Joined: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 10:48
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by abh29 » Sun 08 Jan, 2017 15:56

motco wrote:Failure of DMFs is more usually a diesel problem and is often caused by the massive torque and tendency of drivers to exploit that at too low a rev range. I never labour my X-Type 2.2D, and ensure that if I can sense the engine's firing strokes, I change down.
Parted with my X type 2.2 at 84,000 still had the same faults on sat Nov and radio nut had from new---- dealer just smiled and said " thier like that " Car was 15 month old at time,I retired,considerable older than the car. Love my 2.2. Z3 bought off son often he had her for 3 years.
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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
Posts: 643

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by motco » Mon 09 Jan, 2017 19:05

abh29 wrote:
motco wrote:Failure of DMFs is more usually a diesel problem and is often caused by the massive torque and tendency of drivers to exploit that at too low a rev range. I never labour my X-Type 2.2D, and ensure that if I can sense the engine's firing strokes, I change down.
Parted with my X type 2.2 at 84,000 still had the same faults on sat Nov and radio nut had from new---- dealer just smiled and said " thier like that " Car was 15 month old at time,I retired,considerable older than the car. Love my 2.2. Z3 bought off son often he had her for 3 years.
My satnav is okay - for a 2006 map, and the radio works perfectly. It's a Sovereign with touch screen controls. Occasionally it will remain mute but a restart sorts it. I love th car - comfortable, quiet and economical.

Lancsbob
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Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by Lancsbob » Sat 14 Jan, 2017 08:31

Well, now that i have looked into how these work do the springs have to take
the full torsional load?

How much are the springs supposed to compress as the sound i here i think is the springs springing back
at every gear change, is this normal or a sign of them weakening? Should it be dampened in some way?

Anyone else get this noise?

If these are fitted to the higher powered cars they can't last long.

Cheers bob

NZ00Z3
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2016 02:26
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by NZ00Z3 » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 20:52

Had a clutch judder/shudder on my 2.0 L manual Z3. It was a pain to drive up the hill slowly and into the garage or to do a slight hill start. Replaced the DMF and clutch myself and the car is all good.

There are several tests/checks for the condition of the clutch. Some can be done with the gear box ins, others need the gearbox out.

Try these as a firs start:
- Do you have judder/shudder when doing hill starts? Indication of hotspots on the DMF surface = new DMF
- Does the DMF have more than 15 degrees back lash? If yes = new DMF. Test by putting car on jack stands, socket and ratchet hanging down on the front crank nut (indication of engine turning), put gear box into 5th gear (1:1 ratio), turn the drive shaft to see how much take up (back lash) there is before the ratchet starts to move. You'll also be taking up backlash in the gear box, so allow, say, 5 degrees for that.

Prior to replacing the clutch, I had bad gear change clunk and replace the old rubber hose to the slave cylinder with a stainless steel braided hose. The old rubber hose was expanding when the peddle was depressed. This expansion effectively reduced the amount of clutch slip travel out of the peddle release action as it stored fluid pressure at the end of the stroke and released it rapidly when the peddle first started to release.

Hope this helps.

Muzz

Y_Cymro
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 20:48
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  Z3 coupe 2.8

Re: Dual Mass Clutch Failure "Symptoms"

Post by Y_Cymro » Tue 07 Feb, 2017 21:53

When mine went it made a deep rumbling noise that sounds like your engine's main bearing are worn. The noise sounds so much like run bearings that even when I noticed the noise stopped when the clutch was pressed, I believed it was caused by knackered crank end float bearings, until connecting a pressure gauge proved the oil pressure to be good.
There was no juddering and the clutch didn't slip.
I bought a replacement solid flywheel and clutch kit from Eurocarparts using a 30% discount code. With hindsight I'd have bought a lightened flywheel instead.

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