S54 Phoenix Yellow on Pistonheads

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 10:03

Hi All,

No picture yet but spotted this on PH

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/318521.htm

Doesn't look a bad price but obviously won't get a real idea of condition without pics.

Cheers P

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 10:05

I wonder if it's Phoenix Night's old car?

the_///M_widow · Post by **the_///M_widow** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 10:07

What a fabulous colour to have for //mroadster

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 10:08

Mmmmmmm the thought had crossed my mind Giles.

Was Phoenix Night's a 2001 or a 2002?

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 11:46

Looked back through the posts and Steve's ( Pheonix Night's) was a 2001.

NorwegianBlue · Post by **NorwegianBlue** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 12:08

The yellow inserts may be a give away here as I've not heard of any others with this. So I would guess it is but there was one other for sale in that area a while back.

Zed_Steve · Post by **Zed_Steve** » Tue 18 Dec, 2007 17:37

If it is Phoenix Nights's I certainly wouldnt go near it considering the amount of problems and other issues he had with it after it was recovered and repaired.

Which is shame as im starting to take to this colour. Wasn't sure to start with.

sday12 · Post by **sday12** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:03

Phoenix Nights profile says he's from Leciestershire,

also it states that his car is sold

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:14

Blimey - yes - it sounds like its my old one! Hard to imagine it's any other - the yellow inserts made it unique, the mileage sounds right and it does have good (though not exactly new) F1s all round.

If anyone wants to investigate it, you'll need assurances that:

1. The over heating problem / starting problems are fixed. RAC man said that coolant was leaking into the head gasket causing both issues (or something like that. Sorry for not being technically minded!)

2. Power steering issue is sorted (it would occasionally cut out under low revs making wheel hard work to turn)

The bodywork and wheels are virtually immaculate, the interior second to none (if you like the colour) but I would advise any interested party to at least undertake a thorough technical inspection. Any potential buyer could use this information and the fact that it was stolen and recovered to negotiate a considerable price drop from £15995, which is far too high.

Steve

PS - I let the car go around July time, and going on the mileage it would appear to have not been driven since. I'd therefore be suspicious that the problems have not been addressed.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:39

steve, Was your car registered as Cat D ?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 12:01

No, Cat D means a write-off and Steve had (had to have) it repaired.

It would be insteresting to see what answer you got if you specifically asked if it had been stolen or in any accidents?

Real shame, this car was an absolute gem.

Si.

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 12:19

siwilson wrote: Real shame, this car was an absolute gem.

Si.

Yep indeed. I'd driven her before the theft and she certainly was a beaut.

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 13:58

Let's just hope any potential buyer finds this site first and is aware of the status of the car. Would it be on any register at all I wonder?

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 15:18

It's not Cat D and as far as I am aware it's not on any register at all. I suspect any potential buyer could carry out a car data check and not see anything untoward at all. As SpunkyM says, lets hope potential buyers find this site first.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Sun 23 Dec, 2007 17:44

Pics now up on the PH site.

Should give a better idea of whether this is Steve's old M?

You can see the registration plate.

It does look unusual with all black seats and the yellow inserts in the central console and doors etc.

If it was Steve's, would it not show up as ' previously stolen' on the HPI check?

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Sun 23 Dec, 2007 17:55

Just looked back at Steve's posts of when the phoenix was stolen.

This car is highly likely to be his as I can't see there being 2 Phoenix Yellow S54s both with a reg starting GY51..........................

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Sun 23 Dec, 2007 18:36

Definitely my old one, although never in doubt really - GY51 AJO

I myself carried out a check on it when looking at other vehicles (you get a couple of free checks) and it amazingly does not show up as recorded stolen. Not sure why not - but there was nothing untoward showing at all.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Sun 23 Dec, 2007 22:58

HPI check would only show up "Stolen/Recovered" if the insurance company had paid out for the value of car. This doesn't normally happen unless the car has been missing for at least six weeks. If the car turns up it is the property of the insurance company. They will catecorise it as "Stolen/Recovered" and sell it, usually at auction. There is an M on AutoTrader like this at the moment for £8,450.

In this case they paid for damage done to the car. So there will be no HPI record.

Cat D shows the car has been "Written Off". Two cars could be in very similar accidents. One could be wriien off as Cat D, the other could be repaired. Only the Cat D would show up on an HPI check.

They would all show up on the Insurance Database. When you ask about insuring a vehicle you should always ask if there have been any repairs recorded. They don't have to answer, but if they do, the answer has to be truthful.

Another way to check is to ask BMW. If the repair was done by them, it will be on the BMW database. Same story there. All answers must be honest, but they don't have to give the information.

Zed_Steve · Post by **Zed_Steve** » Sun 23 Dec, 2007 23:32

http://www.datachecks.co.uk/insuranceLoss.htm

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon 24 Dec, 2007 08:13

pingu wrote:They would all show up on the Insurance Database. When you ask about insuring a vehicle you should always ask if there have been any repairs recorded. They don't have to answer, but if they do, the answer has to be truthful.

So if they decline to answer, you decline from buying.

Si.

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Mon 24 Dec, 2007 09:56

I think it's a bit of a bum deal for buyers really. If I was buying a car I would definitely want to know if it had been stolen - whatever the outcome. We are all so careful about warming our cars up properly beofre giving them a good thrashing, but do you think some lousy car thief has any regard for that? I'm not even sure I would want my car back after it had been joyrided - you don't know what damage has been caused to the engine internals with so much abuse from flat cold. I suppose it's one reason why I'm almost against installing a tracker.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Mon 24 Dec, 2007 13:15

Phoenix Nights wrote:Definitely my old one, although never in doubt really - GY51 AJO

I myself carried out a check on it when looking at other vehicles (you get a couple of free checks) and it amazingly does not show up as recorded stolen. Not sure why not - but there was nothing untoward showing at all.

Like Pingu said, if the insurance paid for the car to be repaid (this is what happened?) it won't be recorded at all (at least not for HPI) and nobody but the current owner would know. This is the big flaw in HPI checks; it only lets you know if it was WRITTEN off by economic means, not if it had been damaged and was repaired.

As they get older and worth less, the threshold for writing off becomes lower, so less damage is required to write one off. When these cars were new and cost £40k, they could sustain an almighty amount of damage if they were involved in accident in the first year or so and have £20k of repairs and you'd probably never know!

My parents had a car that was rear ended; the car was less than 12months old; they tried to straighten it out on a jig but when it wouldnt they were all set to reshell it before my parents refused to have the car back like that as reshelling a complex new car with electric everything, TV, sat nav etc would just be a nightmare for niggles, rattles and faults forever.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Mon 24 Dec, 2007 13:36

As a buyer of such a vehicle I would like to know that the car was stolen/ recovered/repaired, as a seller I would prefer the history of repairs to be hidden to retain the value..............catch 22 really

Boney M · Post by **Boney M** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 01:04

Boy am I glad I looked through the forum and spotted this. This particular car has had me bed wetting and was getting ready to go and have a look but now that it's recent history has been revealed........phew !! Too many questions for too high a purchase price.

No problem in buying a Cat D or stolen recovered, as long as it's advertised as and priced accordingly - not looking for OTT price even if it was completely straight, no matter if it's not recorded.

Pity though, really nice looking car.

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 08:19

Boney M wrote:Boy am I glad I looked through the forum and spotted this. This particular car has had me bed wetting and was getting ready to go and have a look but now that it's recent history has been revealed........phew !! Too many questions for too high a purchase price.

No problem in buying a Cat D or stolen recovered, as long as it's advertised as and priced accordingly - not looking for OTT price even if it was completely straight, no matter if it's not recorded.

Pity though, really nice looking car.

You've definitely saved yourself a heap of trouble by reading this thread!

Welcome along by the way.

NorwegianBlue · Post by **NorwegianBlue** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 08:27

There's still a Phoenix Yellow S54 up for sale in Perth, Scotland. Here's the website;

http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/126756/stock.htm

Looks fine from the pictures and not aware of any previous but has appeared at a number of dealers. Last seen at BMW in Inverness.

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 13:15

That one up in Scotland seems incredibly expensive. I fear before too long someone will buy my old car (last seen at a dealership in Poole I believe) and probably get a nasty shock within a few hundred miles. In fact, I've a horrid feeling it's been sold, as it no longer appears on Autotrader.

Boney M · Post by **Boney M** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 16:56

Phoenix Nights car was still up on pistonheads last night, was also on autotrader for £1k more at the beginning of the week.

The one in Perth is just way too expensive, that colour appears to be demanding a premium, which is interesting as it's one of the less liked colours on the M3, can normally find these priced lower than black and grey cars.

There is another S54 car and was wondering if not too cheeky does anybody know this, or should I start another thread - but you all seem a keen lot and would have this spotted way before now...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/269841.htm

Any input appreciated, they are rare enough and to see 3/4 of these for sale is a bit unusual - coming out of warranty maybe ?

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 17:14

You're right in that there does seem to be a few S54's on the market at present, which is odd as you can often go for months without seeing a single one. Buyers market I'd say.

I don't think the silver one is a forum members car (unless it's a lurker) but it looks like a pretty good buy on specification. Shame he didn't clean his mats for the picture

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 18:37

The Pistonheads listing on my old car is waaaaay out of date. They obviously let it go to the dealership in Poole - who would appear to have sold it (or maybe given it back! lol).

As for the silver S54, that has been listed for several months now. Curiously, the seller is using a very old pic of it, one that was probably used by the previous seller. Odd. Cheap - but odd. If you wanted to sell a car, you'd think the least you'd do is get some fantastic, high res, gleaming new pics of it, complete with its (presumably new) chrome door handles which don't appear in that old image.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 18:58

I think selling a soft top in the winter is not really a goer as most people are not enticed to buy, especially with the winter we have had this year.

I did buy my S54 in November though

Funnily enough I was not particularly looking for an S54 at the time but steel grey has long been my favourite colour and I was considering a more powerful zed for the future.

When I realised I might not get the chance again as it was so rare, I just took the bull by the horns.

I have absolutely no regrets. It is marvellous

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 19:18

A good time to buy and a less good time to sell, I would think

Daz · Post by **Daz** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 08:15

Considered a Phoenix on sale in Inverness before buying Charlotte. The dealer said it had no options at all(not that many were available) and was in superb condition, however - asked him to send some pics of the wheels and they were in a terrible state. He was prepared to do a deal though. Seem to remember 16k delivered to Kent.

NorwegianBlue · Post by **NorwegianBlue** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 08:39

Boney M... That silver S54 on Pistonheads has been around for a while too. I first saw it being sold by motorhouse Wales in Feb 2006 with 39K and £18K. It then came up on pistonheads in Oct 2007 with 51K and £14K with the same seller who has it on now.

The car itself is an early one, built in June 2001 and was one of the first ones off the production line.

If you need advice or someone to look at the car, do ask, as there will be an S54 owner willing to help.

Boney M · Post by **Boney M** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 12:09

Looks like you can't get away with much when selling one of these things that's not noticed on here

As the silver car is early '01, will it be affected by the conrod bearing issue, or has enough mileage crept up on it to make it a non issue (if it hasn't happened by now it won't) ?

Amazing advice guys and much appreciated. Only started looking /browsing, so not noticed these particular cars mentioned,had been toying around with various cars including S2000 but have come back to M mode. The boss has decided to keep her S60T5 which leaves me free to go nuts.

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 13:28

I would say the bearing issue would certainly have become evident before 50K miles as it was a faulty component that was to blame (the design is not inherently faulty).

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 13:56

SpunkyM wrote:I would say the bearing issue would certainly have become evident before 50K miles as it was a faulty component that was to blame (the design is not inherently faulty).

Check out the thread that Exdos putting together re this problem. They were ALL fitted with shells that were not quite the right spec/size so I think they are all potentially prone to fail in the right [wrong?] circumstances. You might be right though in that higher mileage cars surviving may indicate it's less likely to fail and this could possibly be because the shells have loosened up through age (I think the tolerance of the bearings to crank were too tight).

Phoenix Nights · Post by **Phoenix Nights** » Mon 26 May, 2008 08:54

UPDATE:

I see they're STILL trying to sell it. This time it's at a dealership in Devon - I wonder how it ended up there:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/510186.htm

Buyers - be warned!