Replacing a Vanos

Daveh · Post by **Daveh** » Tue 22 Jan, 2008 19:21

I took my Z3M into BMW today (2000 with 49k) to have a diagnostic on a noisy vanos unit. I was told the Vanos was functioning fine but the gears were noisy (didn't need to pay BMW to hear that !). I'm considering having it replaced because it is now noisy on tickover.

Questions :

Has anyone had a vanos replaced by an indy specialist, was the job a good one, and what was the cost ?

How difficult is it to replace ? my local garage is excellent and i've asked them if they could do the job ?

Is there anywhere you can buy a vanos unit other than from BMW ?

Has anyone tried to get some kind of goodwill from BMW over the well documented vanos problem.

I want to have the work done properly but really don't want to pay BMW prices if there is another way !

Any help would be appreciated.

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Tue 22 Jan, 2008 20:23

hi,re the goodwiil from bmw ,my dearler paid for 1/2 of it witch was about £600,i didnt have any warranty with them at all,really if you could do that maybe youll only pay the 1/2 worth a try,mine is a 1999 zm ,it had about 40,000 on it when the vanos was done,it wasnt that noisy but i thought ill get it done as they are paying the 1/2

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Tue 22 Jan, 2008 20:35

I was quoted over £3,000 to replace the Vanos and gears by Lind BMW. BMW UK offered to pay £500 goodwill but this was only if I first paid an additional £300 diagnostic fee to Lind to determine whether the Vanos was knackered, despite one of their technicians telling me in the carpark that it was.

My indi could have done it for about £1,600 all in.

snatch · Post by **snatch** » Tue 22 Jan, 2008 22:33

Daveh you have PM

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Wed 23 Jan, 2008 08:56

I had mine replaced under warranty about 18 months ago at 52k miles due to noise on tickover.
Actually loudest at around 1200 RPM.
After about 8k miles since, it's now as noisy. Last week Scotthall organised for their regional engineer to listen to it. Answer is they say most are noisy on tickover & besides it functions OK. I don't know why the replacement is as noisy after just 8k miles as the original after 52k Miles. Maybe cos they only replace the gears & not the splined shaft they run on. Moral is that you could be spending 2k on new Vanos gears only for it to sound the same in a few k miles unless you pay the extra for a new shaft making it even dearer. I'd live with it as it is if I were you. It's only a noise after all. Personally I wouldn't spend the price of a decent used Mondeo just to stop a niose LOL

Daveh · Post by **Daveh** » Wed 23 Jan, 2008 10:16

Snatch - checked my messages, nothing there ?

Robin - you make a very good point, maybe i'll buy a mondeo and put its engine in the M, might catch on !

Seriously, i've lived with the noise for a while and can't help wanting to get it sorted. The car is mint in every other way (Imola red with red top) and its only let down by a noisy vanos.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:35

Daveh wrote:Robin - you make a very good point, maybe i'll buy a mondeo and put its engine in the M, might catch on !

Heck they work pretty well in Nobles

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:45

Robin wrote:
Daveh wrote:Robin - you make a very good point, maybe i'll buy a mondeo and put its engine in the M, might catch on !
Heck they work pretty well in Nobles

Mmmmmm Nobles

snatch · Post by **snatch** » Wed 23 Jan, 2008 18:42

Daveh give me a ring 01789 488865

ZZZEMMCO · Post by **ZZZEMMCO** » Thu 24 Jan, 2008 15:23

As you may know, vanos is one of the words that makes a service managers face light up with £££££££ssss.90% of vanos problem is as has been said, the gears on the spline wearing.Mine was renewed under warranty in 03.

I use Munich Motors-Clives yer man 0118 9772236 in wokingham, and he is the biz on vanos info- as well as everything BMW but by appointment!!!

priteshm · Post by **priteshm** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 01:15

Hi mate
I got my Vanos replaced about 2000 miles ago. Was done by Bexley Motor Works, and all good so far. Definate improvement in performance since.
Luckily Warranty Works paid out on it (cost about £1k for 3years), otherwise would have been around £2200 for the work!

ChrisXL · Post by **ChrisXL** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 04:07

9 out of 10 times the Vanos doesn't even have to be replaced, just have the solenoids replaced and your fine.
Check if the bolts have been replaced though.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 09:23

ChrisXL wrote:9 out of 10 times the Vanos doesn't even have to be replaced, just have the solenoids replaced and your fine.
Check if the bolts have been replaced though.

I always thought it was the other way round; the noise is from the gears on the splines, the actual VANOS solenoid units at the front aren't what "fail"?

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 09:34

c_w wrote:I always thought it was the other way round; the noise is from the gears on the splines, the actual VANOS solenoid units at the front aren't what "fail"?

Spot on. I have never heard of the solenoids failing. That's not to say they never fail but 99% of the time it's the gears that wear & then start rattling on the splines. That's the growling noise that everyone complains of. My view is mine has started to rattle again after just 6 or 7k miles becuase they only replaced the gears & not the shaft as well. If you get both replaced your Vanos should be OK for another 50k miles. That's how long most of the original's last. Even then they only get replaced due to noise, not due to failure of function.

Daveh · Post by **Daveh** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 09:56

What does a failing vanos actually feel like ? My understanding is that around 4000 revs the vanos changes the valve timing and you get an extra 'kick'. I'm not sure i'm getting that, although it could be just 'vanos paranoia' !

///M_aniac · Post by **///M_aniac** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 10:16

Daveh wrote:What does a failing vanos actually feel like ? My understanding is that around 4000 revs the vanos changes the valve timing and you get an extra 'kick'. I'm not sure i'm getting that, although it could be just 'vanos paranoia' !

Nasty rattling/marbles in a can sound in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear from about 1800RPM to 4000RPM coupled with loss in power sometimes but not always.

Deano1712 · Post by **Deano1712** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 10:21

I have heard of solenoids failing on bimmerforums. I imagine if you have a genuine Vanos unit fault it could be pump broke, or solenoids broke and various impacts on performance.

If you suspect performance loss then just do one or more of the following tests to confirm:

0 to 100 mph - you should get near 12 seconds.
80kph to 120kph acceleration flying start. You should get better than 5.4secs in 4th and 7.4 secs in 5th gear. Check also consistency of these times. Mine is less consistent than I would expect. I suspect the Vanos is sometimes slow to respond to demand.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 10:53

Deano1712 wrote: Check also consistency of these times. Mine is less consistent than I would expect. I suspect the Vanos is sometimes slow to respond to demand.

I think they're all like that; sometimes they feel quite fast, other days they feel much quicker.

pdwarren · Post by **pdwarren** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 13:29

My vanos failed recently. The part that failed was a rod connection the solenoid to the gears. Symptoms were a slight surging of the engine under power, and also occasional juddering when cruising.

I'm not aware of anyone else experiencing this particular failure, though.

Paul

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 18:01

pdwarren wrote:My vanos failed recently. The part that failed was a rod connection the solenoid to the gears. Symptoms were a slight surging of the engine under power, and also occasional juddering when cruising.

I'm not aware of anyone else experiencing this particular failure, though.

Paul

That's exactly what mine did.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 18:25

Hi Guys,

I know that the S54 isn't supposed to have this issue, but I would be interested to know why?

Cheers P

///M_aniac · Post by **///M_aniac** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 18:53

In short S54 are more reliable.

VANOS on the S50 is not the strongest system. It will either stop working through use and require rebuild $$$$ or the solenoid seals will leak.

With S54, although VANOS can still fail, more likely than not any engine issues will be limited to dodgy coils and cam position sensors.

pdwarren · Post by **pdwarren** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 19:36

Alex L wrote:
pdwarren wrote:My vanos failed recently. The part that failed was a rod connection the solenoid to the gears. Symptoms were a slight surging of the engine under power, and also occasional juddering when cruising.

I'm not aware of anyone else experiencing this particular failure, though.

Paul
That's exactly what mine did.

The symptoms, the problem, or both?

On mine it was the rod on the exhaust side, for what it's worth.

Paul

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Fri 25 Jan, 2008 21:22

The symptoms were hesitant and jerkiness at constant throttle. Indi suggested valve clearances needed to be adjusted but this made no difference. Vanos check came back that something was out a few degrees beyond the normal tolerance. Got fed up with the car and the constant worry something was going to go bang so sold it.

ZZZEMMCO · Post by **ZZZEMMCO** » Sat 26 Jan, 2008 19:25

Hi Alex L, So sorry to hear of your probs--did you go to a BMW dealer or indi?--A lot of Mis-information gets aired

GAZ · Post by **GAZ** » Sat 26 Jan, 2008 20:38

Why do people not like talking about the S54 engine and the bearing shell
problem's there have been a few of these lately and this will cost alot more than any vanos fault

Gaz

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Sun 27 Jan, 2008 09:47

ZZZEMMCO wrote:Hi Alex L, So sorry to hear of your probs--did you go to a BMW dealer or indi?--A lot of Mis-information gets aired

Went to Lind BMW and an Indi. BMW technician told me in the car park that the Vanos needed replacing, went into the service dept. and they said they needed £300 to run tests to confirm this though.

Indi said Vanos was noisy but didn't think it should affect performance..

In the end had my years fun out of the car, but lost all faith and was constantly worried about something going wrong. Managed to sell the car for £200 quid less than I paid for it and bought a worry free VX220.

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Mon 28 Jan, 2008 13:38

Why do people not like talking about the S54 engine and the bearing shell
problem's there have been a few of these lately and this will cost alot more than any vanos fault

..beacause there are virtually no S54 owners on this forum that have ever had the problem (probably because there were so few S54 Z3's built). It's much more widely reported on the S54 M3, as the sample size is far greater, but then the engine is a little more stressed in the M3 as well.

I can only ever remember 2 reports of it on here and it tends to happen fairly early on in the life of the engine. This was apparently due to a faulty batch of shells rather than an inherent design problem. Seems to be specific manufacture dates of the engine which would also back up this theory. In general, I would guess that anything with over 30K miles on it with no problems would be fine.

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