M Roadster driving experience (DSC needed?)

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Zim
Joined: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 15:42
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  M roadster S52

M Roadster driving experience (DSC needed?)

Post by Zim » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 08:38

Hi all,

a potential m roadster buyer here :) , just got a quick question..

been reading a few posts on here and on other sites and the general thing about the m roadster is that its an 'animal' to drive, but without driving one myself (yet) i wondered just how much of an 'animal' is it to drive?

Is having the S54 model for the DSC a much better/safer option?

any lil info would be great

Thanks

/Z

Phil
Joined: Sun 09 Mar, 2008 10:43
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  M roadster S54
Location: Solihull

Post by Phil » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 08:45

In the wet both cars need to driven with caution. After all there is over 300bhp going through the rear wheels.
With the S54 the traction control certainly helps but its best not to provoke either.
I wouldnt describe either car as a beast to drive though.
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."

Zim
Joined: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 15:42
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  M roadster S52

Post by Zim » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 08:55

Thanks for the reply Phil,

So on 360 days of the year just dont step to hard on the accelerator :P

he ehe

/Z

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Gazza
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  M roadster S54
Location: East London/Essex

Post by Gazza » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 10:28

Zim wrote:Thanks for the reply Phil,

So on 360 days of the year just dont step to hard on the accelerator :P

he ehe

/Z
Fine in a straight line :wink:

You can fit Race-Logic Traction Control to the S50
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

S54 M roadster Image, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Mustang Fastback

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Jonttt
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  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 12:12

Zim

Having driven my fair share of supercars the S50 M is about as good value for £ as you can get.

I bought mine to have fun in and that is exactly what it delivers. Any car with this sort of power needs respect and part of the fun of owning is finding the cars limits safely in all driving conditions. An experience I am just starting with mine. To me the lack of traction adds to this experience. But I won't be driving mine in bad weather day to day driving when traction would come into its own.

As always you can't beat actually gettin into the car and trying for yourself, after all everyone is after something different.
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster

Zim
Joined: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 15:42
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  M roadster S52

Post by Zim » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 13:58

Thanks for the info, will def be getting into one soon and testing it out, its gonna mostly be a weekend car, just gotta see how comfortable i feel in it, before deciding to go for it or the 3.0 z4.

/Z

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NorwegianBlue
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  M roadster S54
Location: Sunny Yorkshire
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Post by NorwegianBlue » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 15:33

There's an S54 M Roadster for sale in Nottingham. It's in Titanium Silver with a dark grey/black interior with what looks like the extended leather.I last saw it up for sale in '05 at Sytners in Nottingham when it had 27K on the clock.

The only thing against from the add is the mileage. May be worth a look, a rare chance to own one of the 73? Much better than a Z4 :lol:

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whiteminks
Joined: Tue 26 Sep, 2006 10:58
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  M roadster S54
Location: Lincoln

Post by whiteminks » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 15:58

I can't see a pic or link there ?

This must be the one you mean?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/915275.htm

Who-ever owned that one last, must have loved driving it. :D

Surely it must have been their daily driver? :wink:
big cheesy wrote:'I nearly cacked my trolleys till I quickly tuned in'. Yorkshire Cruise 2008.

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NorwegianBlue
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  M roadster S54
Location: Sunny Yorkshire
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Post by NorwegianBlue » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 16:34

That's the one !

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Jonttt
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  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 16:43

There is another one on Pistonheads. Has been on there for a while and they have just dropped it from £14.5k to £12.5k.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/271451.htm
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
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Zim
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  M roadster S52

Post by Zim » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 16:54

The S54 sliver is looking mighty nice.. :)

would love a sapphire black one.. but think there where only 8 of them made, so i dint think that's gonna happen.

hopefully test driving a z4 2.0 this weekend..

/Z

skinny
Joined: Tue 21 Feb, 2006 18:45
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  M roadster S50

Post by skinny » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 19:08

DSC is for girls :drive :lol: :lol:
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Phil
Joined: Sun 09 Mar, 2008 10:43
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  M roadster S54
Location: Solihull

Post by Phil » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 19:22

Zim wrote:The S54 sliver is looking mighty nice.. :)

would love a sapphire black one.. but think there where only 8 of them made, so i dint think that's gonna happen.

hopefully test driving a z4 2.0 this weekend..

/Z
Only 8 -- and I've got one -- I thought more than 8 but then you live and learn
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."

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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
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  M roadster S50

Post by pingu » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:06

whiteminks wrote:I can't see a pic or link there ?

This must be the one you mean?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/915275.htm

Who-ever owned that one last, must have loved driving it. :D

Surely it must have been their daily driver? :wink:
Looks like he's been skimping on the servicing. All the services since 2005 have been over the 15,000 mile limit. The last one was at 19,500 - not good.
Pingu

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stu
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  Z3 roadster 2.8 supe
Location: On the edge!

Post by stu » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:08

Zim, if you can exercise restraint, there's no difference as the DSC will be redundant.

Issue is that the Z is short wheelbase and a little snappy/oversteery, particularly in lift off, so mistakes don't tend to be small ones.

There's a big difference in price between S50's and S54's and not much other difference.

I know quite a few people have gone the Racelogic route with S50's and been very happy with the results, with the system being tunable for track and road, rather than a one size fits all BMW programme.
someone in a minority once wrote:I know I'm in a minority
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Jonttt
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  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:18

pingu wrote: Looks like he's been skimping on the servicing. All the services since 2005 have been over the 15,000 mile limit. The last one was at 19,500 - not good.
Pingu, one of the advantages of the S54 engine is increased service intervals. ie approx 15,000miles /12months against approx 7,500miles with the S50 engine. Depending on driving style this could be longer. Given the relatively short time the mileage was achieved probably a lot of motroway driving which would extend the service times so I would say its service history is not far off what you would expect. Would not put me off buying it :D
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pingu
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  M roadster S50

Post by pingu » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:29

jonttt wrote:There is another one on Pistonheads. Has been on there for a while and they have just dropped it from £14.5k to £12.5k.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/271451.htm
It's still for sale after 16 months. I wonder if he's topped up the coolant yet!! It was £16,995 when he first put it on the market...

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 820#144820
Pingu

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Mike123
Joined: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 14:34
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  M roadster S50
Location: Leamington Spa

Z3M Handling

Post by Mike123 » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 01:38

Having averaged 15,000 miles a year for the last 3 years, winter and summer, never slowly, always with a BIG smile on my face, I cannot understand the reports of handling problems. I chose the S50 because it specifically didn't have traction control, and have never regretted it.

Of course the car slides if provoked, and sudden lift-off will cause it to become unstable, but you can get into trouble in most cars if you drive them badly. Yes, the car's got an edgy character - but you don't buy one of these to be bored in!

Having driven an assortment of Z3Ms I prefer the standard wheels and suspension. Good tyres (I'm on my second set of Falken 452s) and a front strut brace are all you need.

There are limits. Next time it snows I'm going to use my Overfinch Range Rover!

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offyourmarks
Joined: Sun 28 Oct, 2007 19:46
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  M roadster S52
Location: Cheshire
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Post by offyourmarks » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 05:29

must admit the 'edgy' nature of the s50 (i have one) does make me worry. I'm not a fast driver but i am cautious on the bends.

a few weeks ago on a damp sunday i went out to an open space industrial estate determined to find the limits of traction - must admit to being pleasantly surprised - its not ridiculously easy to provoke but it does go with a push. I feel more relaxed when driving now after that blat - all in the name of research you understand :D

like others have said - s50 is fine with respect when driving :) and i doubt the TC will allow you to drive like a monster and get away with it either

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Mike123
Joined: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 14:34
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  M roadster S50
Location: Leamington Spa

Z3M Handling

Post by Mike123 » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 08:28

I really recommend getting to know the limits of the car before exploring them on the road. Once you have discovered the car's capabilites - and your own - you can have real confidence in a truly great car.

After a few track days, and particularly after a couple of 'Wet Grip' events at Rockingham Speedway I have a much better understanding of how good the car really is.


http://www.thealpinaregister.com/photos ... m-mike-z3m

At the start I found the sudden switch from initial understeer to oversteer unnerving, but then learnt to stay wide into the corner, cutting later into the apex. This effectively cuts out the understeer stage, and allows the car to corner flat, or if you choose (and there's room) use the throttle to drift the car. Slow in fast out.

Tiff can do it!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPC1ZAPo09Y
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Jonttt
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  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 09:43

Mike

Great photos but I can't believe you had the roof up :wink:
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
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RussJ
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 09:51
Posts: 228

  M roadster S54
Location: Norwich

Post by RussJ » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 10:04

I've had an S50 to which I fitted the Racelogic traction control and now an S54.
The S50 without TC can bite! Unfortunately the situations where you most need it rarely arrive when you are expecting them and most people react instinctively, often doing precisely the wrong thing - panic braking or lifting off the throttle. The next thing is you're in the hedge or worse.
The Racelogic was brilliant but you must keep your foot down and let it work out how much power to apply. If you back off it can't work and you'll probably spin - ask me how I know! You have to acquire the confidence to do this and resist what your instincts are telling you.
The S54 is a different proposition. Although crude by modern day standards it will brake individual wheels as it detects slip and is a better safety net, though probably not as much fun. For most of us mere mortals I'd say it was a better proposition day to day.
However, the best thing you can do with either car is to invest in some quality driver training which should help you avoid situations where you'll need the assistance of TC.... Russ

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Gazza
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  M roadster S54
Location: East London/Essex

Post by Gazza » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 10:52

I can always turn off the DSC if I want to, you can't turn it on if you don't have it :P

DSC is afterall a safety feature and not an aid to bad driving.

It has it's merits as not all Z3M drivers are good drivers that can react with instinct. Just don't rely on it !!

I have only felt the DSC cut in a few times so don't think it hinders my driving style at all.

SO, is it worth having???...............of course it is, just like having windscreen wipers are worth having.
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

S54 M roadster Image, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Mustang Fastback

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Robin
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  M roadster S50
Location: Southampton
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Post by Robin » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 17:42

I had rear end breakaway happen on two occasions in the wet in my 2.8 which had ASC, a basic form of DSC.
It's amazing just how quick the rear can go. It's happened just once with the M/// which I've owned three times as long & has no DSC.
Having had that unpleasant feeling of suddenly finding myself going backwards at speed when facing forwards would be the preferable option, I'm not too inclined to let it happen again, so I drive really carefuly in the wet.
DSC will not prevent rear end breakaway if one corners too tightly or fast in the wet. With or without DSC these cars need to be driven especially carefully in the wet.
For that reason & for the avoidance of corrosion I tend not to take it out in the wet. In the dry I don't see much need for DSC so the no DSC thing isn't a big issue for me.
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Mike123
Joined: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 14:34
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  M roadster S50
Location: Leamington Spa

Z3M Handling

Post by Mike123 » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 22:36

I must be driving a different car.

I think the wet road handling is exactly as I'd want it to be. I want a car that I need to drive, I've had enough of cars that do it all for you.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

AntMan
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Derby

Post by AntMan » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 23:34

My 2.8 breaks away frequently even in the dry :twisted: :twisted: i have to say the asc rarely comes on though, but hey it what makes the car fun to drive. I imagine DSC would be of assistance in the more powerful ///m for those not looking for a more spirited drive/assistance to keep it in a straight line, but i imagine it's down to driver/drivers preference as to weather they want it or not.
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Schnitzer
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  M roadster S52

Post by Schnitzer » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 14:39

i would say that it depends on when you drive the car. If your gonna drive it in the winter then DSC is def the way forward as my car lost control at 25 - 30 mph without foot to the floor! You can see from pics in other threads what that resulted in (mind you the weather conditions were very bad that night as DSC probably wouldnt have saved my car when black ice is around)!

Is the race-logic traction control - launch control any good???

ZZZEMMCO
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  M coupe S50
Location: Motown = Milton Keynes

Always something NEW to learn in Roadcraft!!

Post by ZZZEMMCO » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 18:23

Robin, If you set out for a days drive in an expected dry condition time and after an hour it suddenly goes pearshaped--it buckets down :roll: what do you do?

Drivers HAVE to be Prepared for ANY conditions and drive like it IS.If more confidence is required--get some tuition from the many courses available-OR ask ZNet posters for their proven reccomendations of an on road expert. :idea:
safetyfast

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Robin
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  M roadster S50
Location: Southampton
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Re: Always something NEW to learn in Roadcraft!!

Post by Robin » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 18:59

ZZZEMMCO wrote:Robin, If you set out for a days drive in an expected dry condition time and after an hour it suddenly goes pearshaped--it buckets down :roll: what do you do?
Robin wrote:I drive really carefuly in the wet.
It's not that I'm scared of going out in the wet. I somehow manage to get home without calling the AA if it starts to rain.
'High G' stuff is the most fun. You can't get up to 'high G' cornering etc etc in the wet. You can't get the power down onto the road. Its a different envelope entirely. One can't always be sure how far one can push it before rear end breakaway happens. In other words just where the limit is in the wet. Breakaway can happen too fast for one to react in time to stop a 180. The consequences can be disastrous. So for that reason & the business of corrosion I tend not to take it out in the wet.
It simply isn't as much fun to drive in the wet IMHO :wink:
Unless your on a skid pan of course LOL
That's the safest place to learn where the limit is.
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stu
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  Z3 roadster 2.8 supe
Location: On the edge!

Post by stu » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 20:31

In serious danger of getting way off topic, so my apologies (might even be worth splitting from the main thread :wink:), but I think you learn more about car control and your ability to plan and/or react and can even have some good fun in the wet.

Things actually happen slower/earlier in the wet IMHO, with lower limits possiible so forces are lower and you have more time to react.

I used to spend hours and hours on a skid pan at the the Army base I used to be based at in a Mk2 3.0S Capri and loved every moment! It had no ASC/DSC/ABS/Airbags!

Obviously you're totally correct about high G not being possible in the wet, but seriously, what's high G about a road car on road tyres. Even the best road cars struggle to get past 1g in ideal conditions.

Try a kart on supersticky slicks on a hot day!
someone in a minority once wrote:I know I'm in a minority
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