grumpy idle, lack of power low down, overfuelling

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Tue 14 Apr, 2009 21:23

Took the car in to a specialist tonight, he spent 3 hours removing the inlet checking for leaks etc..removed the ICV which looked fine and back at square one

only had some 3rd party software but it showed no fault codes...he also checked the vanos for a circuit on each pin

Symptoms are:

-Really lumpy idle, Hunting (goes away for a few minutes between cold & getting up to temp)
-Has problems starting up, sometimes turns over alot then stutters
-Intermittantly has NO power at low revs
- Overfuelling

Any ideas? I heard it might be VANOS related? the vanos looks fairly new although i have no record, its also silent at the moment.

Also since driving away and the dismantling of the parts i have now lost all power whatsoever, the car is completely flat all the way through the revs & takes AGES to get up to speed

Post by **Robert T** » Tue 14 Apr, 2009 21:48

Could be one or the other of the camshaft sensors. Most people on here have gone for replacement, but Mike Fishwick did mention cleaning them also worked - might be worth a try giving them a bit of a clean and seeing it it improves things?

When mine failed, I believe it logged a fault code, but they don't always. They can cause all manner of running problems - mine was so bad the car would not run for more than a minute without the revs dropping away - not great on a bust dual-carriageway. Interestingly it fixed itself after the AA man had a fiddle with it, but I got it changed next day and it has been fine ever since.

Cheers R.

mich · Post by **mich** » Tue 14 Apr, 2009 22:48

grumpy, idle, lack of power, low down, overfuelling aka eating

Yep, that sounds like me

Kolgan · Post by **Kolgan** » Wed 15 Apr, 2009 06:43

Normally with a camshaft sensor issue you have 50% of chance to not start

Tilly · Post by **Tilly** » Wed 15 Apr, 2009 16:59

I had exactly the same symptoms on my car. Mine was a Vanos problem.
Firstly you need to carry out a Vanos check using the Diagnostic machine, they just plug the Computer into the Diagnostic Port and run the test from the tests menu. It operates the solenoids and advances and retards both exhaust and inlet sides while the engine is ticking over. The readouts tell you if there is a fault but not what type of fault. It could be the inferior seals and O-rings which cause no noise but fail over time. It is usually the excessive play in the bearings which make the Vanos growl so you can have one without the other. With my car it was the ‘O’ rings which failed on the exhaust side. The main part of the Vanos is robust and the actual solenoids only occasionally fail.
I have just fitted a reconditioned unit from Dr Vanos. All seals renewed plus bearings. Running very quiet and smoothly. When you send your unit to Dr Vanos, if the solenoids are OK the replacement unit costs $400 plus shipping.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Thu 16 Apr, 2009 13:33

Well tilly you were right:

67 Advance Valve - vanos intake

Open circuit

Spoke to the specialist who said it 'might' be fixable through a broken solenoid wire? bmw themselves said they wouldn't touch it so £2200 please :s, going to try and get some sort of compensation from the dealer

Kolgan · Post by **Kolgan** » Thu 16 Apr, 2009 14:14

Open circuit that sound really good for me. Normally is just an easy fix, at 95% it mean one wiring is broken in between your actuator and your ECM (i speaking generally in my work).

Or for the other 5% is the actuator broken.

Good luck

Tilly · Post by **Tilly** » Thu 16 Apr, 2009 15:48

Quote Shantybeater

Well tilly you were right:

67 Advance Valve - vanos intake

Open circuit

Spoke to the specialist who said it 'might' be fixable through a broken solenoid wire? bmw themselves said they wouldn't touch it so £2200 please :s, going to try and get some sort of compensation from the dealer.

The solenoid O-rings have probably failed. It's not a major failure, but it's good that you caught it before a major catastrophy occurred.
I'm sure your vanos could benefit from a full rebuild, as the other seals and O-rings are most likely in the same condition. (There are no less than 19 seals and O-rings on the Euro 3.2 vanos). If you are able to send your vanos Dr Vanos(Chris Gant at Dr Vanos: Support@DrVanos.com ) in the USA, they can fully rebuild it with all new seals, Orings, gaskets, etc. and test the solenoids to ensure they are working properly. They also can give you other options.

The cost of this is much much cheaper.

I have one fitted, it’s curred the problem and the car is running like a peach. I’ll send an e-mail to another contact who may be able to give some additional information.

Good luck

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Thu 16 Apr, 2009 16:35

thanks for the advice tilly

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Fri 17 Apr, 2009 08:07

Shanty Beater I have literally just had the same problem. I went to 2 specialists and neither could give me a positive answer.
Both diagnostics said "vanos exhaust advance valve". I looked on net and decided to fix it myself.

The problem is the vanos exhaust solenoid. Mine completely packed up.
See this link for location of them
http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/
There is a simple 3 pin plug that connects just infront of the fan behind a plastic guard.
Remove the plastic with 2 nuts holding it in (spanner in boot fits these). You'll now see the plug connector. unplug it, get yourself a multimeter and test the impedance. The middle pin is common earth for the solenoids, the outer pins are a positive for each solenoid, advance and retard. Advance is the solenoid at the top.

The reading from earth to positive for each should read 4ohms. I'm 100% sure your advance one will have no reading.

If this is the case, you need to buy one from BMW for £249 incl. VAT.

The removal and fitting process of the solenoids set takes 25 minutes Max.

Just use the pliers from the boot, get a good grip on the solenoid and pull it out. Get a cloth to mop up abit of oil. unplug, and fit the new solenoids (you get an alignment tool for this), Plug in and just make sure the bolts for the solenoid cover are in tight! I believe it's 8Nm if you're using a torque wrench.

Then start your car up and leave it for a minute or 2 for the ecu to adjust.

I hope this helps. It worked for me and was delighted not to have to pay the quoted £522 for the process.

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Fri 17 Apr, 2009 08:13

Sorry i've just seen it is your INTAKE solenoid.

Just do the same but for the intake side!

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 17 Apr, 2009 09:59

Thanks taz I'll try it when I get home, all 3 pins should be 4ohms? Do I put the multi meter points either side of the pin? (never used one before!)

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Fri 17 Apr, 2009 10:53

Hi,

keep negative in middle pin, and just put the positive across each outer pin, yes should be 4ohm for each outer pin!

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 17 Apr, 2009 16:39

Well i tried it out, not used a multi meter before but i was definately getting some sort of reading from both pins

checked on both of the plugs i could see, one well under the cover & the other poking out of it (each had the 2 screw attachments for the cover on them):

I'm guessing this means its something more sinister?

Justin Time · Post by **Justin Time** » Fri 17 Apr, 2009 17:13

Some more reading regarding replacement O ring seals, here.

I hope the situation gets solved economically.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 18 Apr, 2009 10:51

can someone point me in the directior of what settings i should have this thing on? is the positive plugged in to the right connection?

Sorry i've never been one for electronics

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Sat 18 Apr, 2009 11:35

Hi James
Yes thats' right. The other socket is for 10A. I thought the dealer was going to get this sorted for you as a condition of purchase.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 18 Apr, 2009 12:44

it was, sounded ok when i picked it up but i realised it wasnt once i'd driven it down the road, i've spoken to the dealer & he's getting it sorted through one of his specialists. Fingers crossed this gets dealt with

Althulas · Post by **Althulas** » Sat 18 Apr, 2009 19:49

I don't want to put a downer on your day but I would keep a very assertive firm hand with the dealer on what's acceptable with the fix on this. As I find it hard to believe that the dealer did not bother to sort out the roughness of the engine for a better sale unless it was going to make an economical sale if he fixed it.

Well hopefully the dealer does the decent thing and gives you it back all peachy or lets you have your cash back if it's not to your satisfaction.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 18 Apr, 2009 19:55

Thanks for the advice, i'm kind of expecting some sort of fob off on this because of the sheer cost of the job but i'm going to keep an open mind till i get the car back, it will be going straight to bmw for another diagnosis once its done, I'm really hoping he does the decent thing but we will see......