I would like to know your thoughts on a car for sale on Piston Heads.
http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/1007707.htm
I think it has been discussed briefly before in another thread.
1. I like the colour so not an issue
2. Full BMW history except last insp.II. independent @ 51k.
3. Current keeper for 3 years.
4. Was a BMW owned car originally
5. Recent wheel refurb but not perfect/front bumper painted but not perfect.
This I do not understand, if work is needed it must be done right.
6. 6 owners including this one.
The chap is sending more photo's and details tonight.
Thanks for your help guys
Purchase help needed Pheonix Yellow S54 Z3m Roadster (2001)
I wouldn't worry about the indy service unless car still covered by extended warranty.
The number of owners is not unusual either (these cars often run for one year and sold on by people who wanted ///M experience)
Check boot floor for spot weld failure (not sure if applicableto S54 but no harm in checking,look for my thrad on diff mount failure in m roadster forum fo pictures of what to look for)
There really is no excuse for cheap/shoddy repairs on these cars as the majority of people wh want one at the age they are now expect them to be more or less spot on,worry about more damage under surface / more problems owner can't afford to fix and is selling on?
At least budget for wheel refurb at £80/wheel and respray of bumper c£300.
Bu then again S54 ///M roadster at right price is worth it
The number of owners is not unusual either (these cars often run for one year and sold on by people who wanted ///M experience)
Check boot floor for spot weld failure (not sure if applicableto S54 but no harm in checking,look for my thrad on diff mount failure in m roadster forum fo pictures of what to look for)
There really is no excuse for cheap/shoddy repairs on these cars as the majority of people wh want one at the age they are now expect them to be more or less spot on,worry about more damage under surface / more problems owner can't afford to fix and is selling on?
At least budget for wheel refurb at £80/wheel and respray of bumper c£300.
Bu then again S54 ///M roadster at right price is worth it
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NorwegianBlue
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PERRIN Z3M
- Joined: Fri 12 Oct, 2007 19:49
- Posts: 398
- Location: Horley
Thakyou for all your replies:
@jonttt will definately check diff mounts and boot floor spot welding. As you say it is what is underneath thats important, i can allways offer less for a wheel refurb and paint to the bumper.
@NorwegianBlue an interesting history I think. Good to know it's an ex forum members car.
@PERRIN Z3M If I buy the car I will have a good quality refurb maybe at Pristine wheels MK so it's nice to know the correct colour.
I am trying to arrange a viewing but its about 170 miles away so no mean task. will keep you informed and post some pics if I buy it.
many thanks
john
@jonttt will definately check diff mounts and boot floor spot welding. As you say it is what is underneath thats important, i can allways offer less for a wheel refurb and paint to the bumper.
@NorwegianBlue an interesting history I think. Good to know it's an ex forum members car.
@PERRIN Z3M If I buy the car I will have a good quality refurb maybe at Pristine wheels MK so it's nice to know the correct colour.
I am trying to arrange a viewing but its about 170 miles away so no mean task. will keep you informed and post some pics if I buy it.
many thanks
john
Did you view the car before making the offer?
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M CoupeNo I did not view the car, I made the conditional offer after factoring in the wheel refurb front bumper paint and the fact it did not have an electric roof. The latter not a deal breaker on it's own but there were other things as well. The guy that was selling the car provided all the information that I asked for and could not have been more helpfull, but the car was not for me at that price.
By the way do you eat,catch or breed the fish
John
By the way do you eat,catch or breed the fish
John
I sell 'em
Did you make a silly bid?
The reason for the question is this.....I have my T-Bird up for sale at the moment and I'm getting lots of interest and offers, but what rattles my cage is not one of them has come to see the car before making an offer.
Don't take this as a personal dig, I think £12850 is a good price for an S54 even in the current economic climate.
Did you make a silly bid?
The reason for the question is this.....I have my T-Bird up for sale at the moment and I'm getting lots of interest and offers, but what rattles my cage is not one of them has come to see the car before making an offer.
Don't take this as a personal dig, I think £12850 is a good price for an S54 even in the current economic climate.
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
An S54 with a manual hood? Are you sure?
Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.
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Pheonix Neutron
- Joined: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 21:19
- Posts: 10
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- Location: Chepstow
OK just to clarify a few things ----
Not all S54's were produced with electric hoods - my car happens to be one of the first produced and has a manual hood --- easily verified via any main BMW agent who will look up the factory spec. (in fact the electric option was option 399).
Likewise it wasn't manufactured with headlight washers.
I also believe that there are a few other early versions the same.
Regarding the wheels - they have been refurbished, but are in shadow chrome (or as near as you might get to).
Regarding the front bumper - yes it's been repainted as any car of this age will inevitably have stone chips at 53,800 miles and I purposfully didn't want it blended into the bonnet - hence as anyone who is familar with re-finnishing will know there will be a slight colour variation - ever wondered why virtually all Audi A4's and A6's bumpers had a miss-match from new - it certianly isn't as bad as they are from new!!
Regarding the price - I'm open to any views regarding what's sensible but I note a few have said that £12850 is reasonable compared to what I was offered, bearing in mind a 2002 S54 in Phoenix Yellow with 47k miles recently was up for £12950.
Advert updated to give any potential purchasers more details - in fact I'm in not hurry t sell, but will do at the right price.
Regarding the boot diff. welds - none have cracked however, it looks like the S54's have additional weld behind the spot welds that normally go on S50's - suspect they flex alot as some paint has come off one of these but no cracking at all.
If anyone is interested in my car then please PM me.
Thanks
Not all S54's were produced with electric hoods - my car happens to be one of the first produced and has a manual hood --- easily verified via any main BMW agent who will look up the factory spec. (in fact the electric option was option 399).
Likewise it wasn't manufactured with headlight washers.
I also believe that there are a few other early versions the same.
Regarding the wheels - they have been refurbished, but are in shadow chrome (or as near as you might get to).
Regarding the front bumper - yes it's been repainted as any car of this age will inevitably have stone chips at 53,800 miles and I purposfully didn't want it blended into the bonnet - hence as anyone who is familar with re-finnishing will know there will be a slight colour variation - ever wondered why virtually all Audi A4's and A6's bumpers had a miss-match from new - it certianly isn't as bad as they are from new!!
Regarding the price - I'm open to any views regarding what's sensible but I note a few have said that £12850 is reasonable compared to what I was offered, bearing in mind a 2002 S54 in Phoenix Yellow with 47k miles recently was up for £12950.
Advert updated to give any potential purchasers more details - in fact I'm in not hurry t sell, but will do at the right price.
Regarding the boot diff. welds - none have cracked however, it looks like the S54's have additional weld behind the spot welds that normally go on S50's - suspect they flex alot as some paint has come off one of these but no cracking at all.
If anyone is interested in my car then please PM me.
Thanks
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Justin Time
- Joined: Thu 22 Jun, 2006 20:34
- Posts: 2183
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- Location: Kent
Yep good look to you both
Pheonix, thanks for the info, as you know not many S54's come up.
Its very interesting re the electric roof as I knew very early S50's did not have it (mostly left hand drive) but I did not know this was the case with S54's. I can't understand why BMW would do this ?
If you had not clarified I would have assumed that the motor had just been disengaged in the boot as there has been an example recently of a dealer selling one with a manual roof but on investigation discovered it was electric with disengaged motor
Personally I think your price is fair for a reasonable mileage S54 in decent nick and I agree with your comments re the bumper. They were selling at x2 the price of S50's 6 months ago but I think a 50% premium is about right
Re the spot weld if there is no sign of rust then I agree has not broken (every example I've seen including my own had orange rust on the weld from water ingress, not enough to make boot damp but enough to rust the metal)
Pheonix, thanks for the info, as you know not many S54's come up.
Its very interesting re the electric roof as I knew very early S50's did not have it (mostly left hand drive) but I did not know this was the case with S54's. I can't understand why BMW would do this ?
If you had not clarified I would have assumed that the motor had just been disengaged in the boot as there has been an example recently of a dealer selling one with a manual roof but on investigation discovered it was electric with disengaged motor
Personally I think your price is fair for a reasonable mileage S54 in decent nick and I agree with your comments re the bumper. They were selling at x2 the price of S50's 6 months ago but I think a 50% premium is about right
Re the spot weld if there is no sign of rust then I agree has not broken (every example I've seen including my own had orange rust on the weld from water ingress, not enough to make boot damp but enough to rust the metal)
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Pheonix Neutron
- Joined: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 21:19
- Posts: 10
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- Location: Chepstow
jonttt,
Thanks for the good words - I've seen your thread regarding diff welds.
OK I'm not a mechanic but not boasting but I'd say that I've got more mechanical and structural knowlege than most on the forum - having been initially a Marine Engineering with Shell and Nuclear Power Generation for 25 years, degree in mechanical engineering and Fellow of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers. Yes in my early days I've done lots on cars especially minis.
My view on the diff weld is that as you know, structures flex, they have to otherwise failure will occur prematurely. For sure we all know this specifically in a roadster as the torsional stiffness is far less that a hard top version (i.e. what we call scuttle shake is the body twisting and flexing - try jacking up any car with the door open and then close it and most probably the closure will foul the striker plate ). Without going into stress cycles and SN curves there is clearly a high load on the diff mount on I believe not just Z3m's but all Z3's espicailly the early ones. My view is that unless it's really bad then why bother fixing it prematurely?
Sometimes the headlines are a little like what we read and are brian washed every day in the media - only bad news makes news without knowing the actual facts - certianly true about my industry and certianly about the diff mont boot spot welds.
As I said there apprears to be a second row of spot welds which are acrually 1/2 inch long seam welds along the flange of the cross member when viewed underneath the car (and I know they haven't been added looking at the condition of them i.e original underseal etc - which might be the difference to the S54 to S50 ?).
I also know that the E46's suffer as per a conversation I've had with a BMW dealer - we have to be realistic here as how many people knew that. They've had many claims I was told and guess what..... they are still selling to the mass second hand market without most people knowing.
The problem with advertising an S54 seems to be that most people aren't aren't aware of the reasons why they are priced slightly more that S50's.
I believe that ther are probably 2 other S54's with manual hoods - yes the first 3 produced for launch. Hey does this make my car even rarer than a customer ordered S54 with an electric hood (which I believe is std. spec.?)
Being a long standing member of this forum I've nothing to hide and just want to consoldate my current 4 car fleet!! However I'm considering an SLK 55 AMG as a replacement - anyone have one to PX with me?.
I know it'll go in time - had 2 more initial enquiries today.
Thanks for the good words - I've seen your thread regarding diff welds.
OK I'm not a mechanic but not boasting but I'd say that I've got more mechanical and structural knowlege than most on the forum - having been initially a Marine Engineering with Shell and Nuclear Power Generation for 25 years, degree in mechanical engineering and Fellow of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers. Yes in my early days I've done lots on cars especially minis.
My view on the diff weld is that as you know, structures flex, they have to otherwise failure will occur prematurely. For sure we all know this specifically in a roadster as the torsional stiffness is far less that a hard top version (i.e. what we call scuttle shake is the body twisting and flexing - try jacking up any car with the door open and then close it and most probably the closure will foul the striker plate ). Without going into stress cycles and SN curves there is clearly a high load on the diff mount on I believe not just Z3m's but all Z3's espicailly the early ones. My view is that unless it's really bad then why bother fixing it prematurely?
Sometimes the headlines are a little like what we read and are brian washed every day in the media - only bad news makes news without knowing the actual facts - certianly true about my industry and certianly about the diff mont boot spot welds.
As I said there apprears to be a second row of spot welds which are acrually 1/2 inch long seam welds along the flange of the cross member when viewed underneath the car (and I know they haven't been added looking at the condition of them i.e original underseal etc - which might be the difference to the S54 to S50 ?).
I also know that the E46's suffer as per a conversation I've had with a BMW dealer - we have to be realistic here as how many people knew that. They've had many claims I was told and guess what..... they are still selling to the mass second hand market without most people knowing.
The problem with advertising an S54 seems to be that most people aren't aren't aware of the reasons why they are priced slightly more that S50's.
I believe that ther are probably 2 other S54's with manual hoods - yes the first 3 produced for launch. Hey does this make my car even rarer than a customer ordered S54 with an electric hood (which I believe is std. spec.?)
Being a long standing member of this forum I've nothing to hide and just want to consoldate my current 4 car fleet!! However I'm considering an SLK 55 AMG as a replacement - anyone have one to PX with me?.
I know it'll go in time - had 2 more initial enquiries today.
That's the job of the subframe bushes/diff mount bush though. The shell theoretically (well this is what the designers would want) should be as stiff and resistant to any flex as possible. Where there is long-term flex in metal it would normally lead to weakening/failure which is probably what we're seeing here with the Z3 boot floor - it's just not substantial enough.Pheonix Neutron wrote: My view on the diff weld is that as you know, structures flex, they have to otherwise failure will occur prematurely.
Phoenix
Its interesting that they may well have strengthened the S54's as this was a well known issue particularly on the american S52 model and it would make sense that they "quietly" modified the car around the time of the S54 (certainly the diff bracket seams to be thicker metal).
The nature of the problem not being noticable in all but the most extreme cases and the costly/intrusive repair is probably why there was never an actual recall and BMW dealt / are dealing with on a case by case basis. The current issue they have with the Mini steering pumps is much more serious. They have now got themselves into a position were it is generally accepted they should have done a product recall but have left it too late and the cost of claims would be astronical. The mini's is a real safety issue (my girlfriends failed on her on the motorway!!!!! and she had to pay to repair as was 6 months out of warranty)
Anyway fact is S54's will always attract a premium purely on rarity value but the "age" factor is declining as the cars get older and the S50's starts to bottom out and is the reason why the premium between an S54 and S50 has closed.
As I said above you have a nice car at a realistic price so therefore it will sell so good luck
Its interesting that they may well have strengthened the S54's as this was a well known issue particularly on the american S52 model and it would make sense that they "quietly" modified the car around the time of the S54 (certainly the diff bracket seams to be thicker metal).
The nature of the problem not being noticable in all but the most extreme cases and the costly/intrusive repair is probably why there was never an actual recall and BMW dealt / are dealing with on a case by case basis. The current issue they have with the Mini steering pumps is much more serious. They have now got themselves into a position were it is generally accepted they should have done a product recall but have left it too late and the cost of claims would be astronical. The mini's is a real safety issue (my girlfriends failed on her on the motorway!!!!! and she had to pay to repair as was 6 months out of warranty)
Anyway fact is S54's will always attract a premium purely on rarity value but the "age" factor is declining as the cars get older and the S50's starts to bottom out and is the reason why the premium between an S54 and S50 has closed.
As I said above you have a nice car at a realistic price so therefore it will sell so good luck
