One less Z3M - Crashed today (with pics)

[flames247]

Feeling pretty gutted at the moment it has to be said. I was travelling home about 5.45 am, roads completely clear, very wet roads. I was in the fast lane and moved across into the middle lane & just as I was crossing over the white lines I felt the rear step out - got it back straight and then just as I thought it was all OK it went round to the right and spun out and was flying down the motorway backwards then collided with outside reservation (facing the opposite way).

I’m OK just damaged pride and hacked off and this really should not happen. I must have hit some standing water and been really unlucky. I also think the budget rear tyres on the back (that were nearly brand new & on the car when I got it 2 months ago) didn’t help I should have changed these when I had some performance dunlop’s put on the front.

It looks really bad but I’m wondering if anyone thinks there could be a chance the insurance garage might be able to fix this – it’s mainly panel damage. The wheel on the back has been caved in slightly but I cant see any chassis damage on first inspection. Damaged to suspension too.

Just wondering what you guy’s might think – it’s a long shot I know getting it repaired as it does looks quite costly but might (hopefully look worse) that it may actually be?

These might make you feel sick so be warned.....






Edited by mod in your interests

[Justin Time]

I can honestly say I've been there and done exactly that (clicky!), budget tyres on the Z and wet conditions equals disaster. The positive thing is that you weren't, or anyone else, hurt in the accident. I hope the process ahead isn't too stressful or costly, and I wish you the best of luck in putting the crash and the insurance paperwork behind you.

If you wanted a general indicator: insurance companies tend to write off a car if there is work to be carried out that equals 60% or more of the total value of the car, and that is parts and labour included. Looking at the damage done (panels, wheels, rear axle, front and rear suspension) I don't know if it will be repaired or scrapped, it seems to be too close to call (new panels alone will be £3000 new c/a from BMW according to RealOEM). I believe parts need to be sourced through BMW but there isn't a need to get them to do the work.

Best of luck.

[Alfie]

Oooo....nasty.

Glad you're ok.
Looks like your BMW protected you as it should.

Its another confirmation that you should NEVER mix tyre brands and types on your Zed. All four corners the same. Always.

But I'm sure that there must've been something more than just standing water that caused the spin in the first place, even if the cheap rear tyres made the situation unsavable.
Standing water + road paintwork + change of direction or increase in speed is a lethal combination in a powerful rear wheel drive car.

I always try to remember to relax the gas a little when changing lanes in the wet.

Again....glad you walked away unhurt.

Regards
Alfie.

[Boysie]

Hi flames247


I feel so sorry for you

I was only discusssing tyres the other day
How important they are on a performance car
Sorry that comment does'nt help much now

I cannot see any reason why the insurance wont payout for the damage

Food for thought
I recently smashed my van the insurance said it was a write off
I said you cant do that its worth more to me
They agreed an amount to pay for repair, and i paid the difference
It is now not registered as a category of any sort
and I very pleased with the the repair albeit a van

Obviously there must not be any structural damage

It all depends what the cars worth to you

Dont go to a dealer

A dealer will overprice all the parts
Even if they farm out the work, they want to make their bit of
profit, so they charge the repairer full whack for the parts

Go independent

Ray

[///M_aniac]

Gutted for you, mate. Whats been said above by Alfie and Justin re tyres I wholly agree with.

As regards getting the car repaired, and it looks borderline, it's not going to be a cheap repair. You are probably talking somewhere between £3.5 and £5k depending on where you go. Can't believe I'm gonna say this, as we need to preserve as many of these as possible, but you might be best breaking it.

Chin up, mate. At least you are ok.

Conor

[pimp-master-d]

just wanna say mate glad you ok n sorry for your loss stay safe n good luck wit the insurance

[mv70]

Nice to hear your ok, the car can be fixed I guess.

[AussieZ3]

Glad you're ok mate.
Did the side airbag go off?

[motco]

Sorry about the car, but glad you're all right. I'd be pretty depressed if it were mine...

[flames247]

Thanks for all your replies - no air bags went off but very pleased with how the car held up & protected me.

It's been taken away today by insurance for valuation / inspection etc.

Will keep you updated on what happens next!

Cheers

[Alfie]

If it's a borderline write off, your insurers will probably write it off without too much thought, but if you want it repaired, it might be worth pushing for it.
If you impress on them how rare the car is and how much it is worth to you, they might be swayed.

Good luck!

A.

[motco]

[Thinks] I wonder if an 'M' straight six would fit my Westfield engine bay....

[Robin]

My 1st ///M suffered similar damage to yours after I lost it in the wet due to aquaplaning on standing water on the M27.
Every panel was damaged & a front wheel almost ripped off.
I didn't exactly feel gutted. I was dismayed, but at the same time I felt very fortunate to have walked away from such a high speed accident with nothing more than a bruised elbow. Either way I sympathise with you.
The insurance company wrote it off & paid me £17500.
So with values now 6 years later at half that I would think they will almost certainly write off yours.
I saw my car on Autotrader a few months later for sale as a Cat C.
I think you will be better off with your car written off & the cash than have the car returned to you repaired as a category C or D car. Judging from the rear wheel angle on yours it looks like it would be Cat C.

[Desiro]

It's a bad time I know
But looking to the future, if it's written off you could ask to keep the car as part of your pay out and sell the component parts on here.
You will probably make a tidy profit which you can put towards a new Zed in spring.

Can I buy the boot lid struts mine are weak and don't extend fully

[Canman]

remind me to keep a safe distance behind you Desiro when we go for a run out

sorry to hear about your zed flames , still it could have been worse.

[Orinoco]

Hi
Sorry about the car but am pleased you are still here to tell the tale.

I have had a couple of times where the back end has twitched and have managed to correct it luckily. There is one spot on my way home from work where the water lies across both lanes of a dual carriageway and I hold my breath as I drive through it. It is particularly bad if you are in the fast lane and there is another vehicle alongside you as the car aquaplanes and twitches as you drive through the water. Its a sense of relief as you get through it in one piece.

Bad news about the car but it can be replaced or repaired. Good news you are OK.

Regards
Orinoco

[alanandjudi]

Gutted for you , like most of the M drivers on here, know only too well how easy it is too loose the backend even without pressing the loud pedal. Still remember my 180 in the wet, thankfull there was a lovely wide long verge and got away just about scott free.
What rear tyres were you on out of intrest. Changed mine earlier in the year, in the end wet middle of the road pricewise and put Toyos on. Seem fine in the dry, car tends to stay in garage on the wet days now.

[whiteminks]

Very sorry to hear about your ///M. Glad you are not hurt though

I have felt mine twitch a few times in the rain and ice but fortunately the S54 has traction control. It might be worth thinking about an S54 as a replacement although I guess at speed even TC might not save you.
I have used mine in all weathers including the snow we had last winter.

[Mike123]

I am convinced that there are 2 completely different versions of the Z3M out there - and I don't mean S50s ans S54s.

I have put my S50 (no traction control) through every challenge over 4 years and 50k miles - fast road trips through thunderstorms, standing water, snow and ice, Rockingham's skid pans, and Prodrive's various tests - and am so happy with it's safe, predictable handling that you could not convince me to swap it for almost anything on the road today. I admit that the snow and ice trips were slow, and needed a lot of concentration - it was embarassing being overtaken by Nissan Micras - but I still enjoyed every minute.

Then there are the Z3Ms described by many on this and other sites - skittish, dangerous as soon as a few drops of rain fall, 'whatever you do don't touch the traction control switch!', and even proof with photos of the aftermath of daring to take them out in the wet.

Of course, 300+bhp, rear wheel drive, needs some basic common sense. Alfie is right - the only points of contact are a few square centimetres of rubber, even less in the wet, so why would anyone not put decent tyres on to a Z3M? Budget rear tyres? xx mph in a lane change on standing water? Surprise, surprise!

I'm really sorry for all of those who have had the misfortune to damage their pride and joy, and accept that there but for the grace....

I'll probably stuff it through the next available hedge tomorrow and be forced to eat my own words (hopefully not my dashboard!).

Tyres, Tyres, Tyres!

PLEASE stop worrying about chrome gills, strut braces, sub-woofers, cup holders, polishes, and 'Angel Eyes' until you've put some decent tyres on all four wheels!

I personally love Falken 452s, which cost about £350 a set - not cheap, especially in these hard times - but good value when you consider the risks involved.

I'm really sorry Flames, Robin if I seem hard-hearted about your losses - especially just after a terrible experience - but I am really keen that others are not put off by such events, when the car is so good to drive.

I personally would definitely not want to drive a car of this type which had any sort of accident history, so would take the money and run. In my case to the best available Z3M, but after your experience I would understand if you were not so sure.

[motco]

I actually don't think £350 a set of four good tyres is dear. I just fitted a couple of Avon tyres to a Mondeo diesel estate and they were over £80 each.

[skinny]

I completely agree with Mike, maybe some are good and some are bad.

I used to drive mine to the limit in the dry and was amazed how much grip it had in the wet. But on all my cars i've had the geometry checked regually and had good tyres, Toyo R1's on the ///M

I've never had DSC thats for girls lol

[Robin]

PLEASE stop worrying about chrome gills, strut braces, sub-woofers, cup holders, polishes, and 'Angel Eyes' until you've put some decent tyres on all four wheels!

I couldn't agree more Mike.
New shock absorbers should also come before fitting new cup holders & chrome gills not to mention HID headlights that just dazzle oncoming drivers.
My car had Eagle F1's at the time of the accident, but of course even for them there's a limit to the amount of speed combined with water that they can cope with.

[321bhp]

oh im so sorry for you,thats some damage there,hopefully the insurance will pay out,and all will be ok,if it were mine,id have it fixed,

[Mike Fishwick]

The problem in the UK is that everyone thinks they can drive at normal speed in any conditions - over here in France rain means a 10 mph drop in the speed limits, which are observed quite well.

If you tried that in the UK you would be travelling in a mass of spray from everyone else, being tailgated by trucks, and generally having a more dangerous time.

Having said that, have you visited the scene of the accident and checked the road for depressions, temporary crack repairs by overbanding, a depression due to poor foundations, or oil contamination?

Any of these would enable you to make a claim against the council or Highways Agency, as lots of motorcycists have done over the years. There may even have been several identical accidents in this spot.

[Tilly]

Glad you are Ok but sorry about the car.

I know it is too late closing the door after the horse has bolted but the correct tyres on the M are critical. In F1 we all know the importance of the tyre on grip levels. Water, temperature, compound and tread all have a significant effect. On any road car you have to make a compromise and the higher the car performance the more difficult the decision.

In the dry most good tyres once up to adequate temperature give a good performance. The harder compound, even with minimal tread is sufficient to meet most situations. In the cold and wet everything changes. You need a softer compound, more tread depth and a modified driving style. Compounds optimised for dry driving, providing reasonable tyre wear, are usually too hard for optimal wet handling. You can somewhat offset this by ensuring that the tread depth stays above 3mm. But the tyre temperature can easily drop to less than 400 C. Cold tyres on an M don’t give you not much more grip than driving on ice.

Although it appears obvious I only realised the importance of correct tyres when living in Switzerland. The difference in grip between a snow tyre and a summer tyre on a cold wet day was very noticeable. Apart for the grip the only difference between 225/16 M/S and the same aspect summer tyre was the M/S tyres were restricted to 100M.P.H speed limit. If you want to do more than 100 in the wet or snow you don’t need tyres but wings.

So I agree with all those who say good tyres are essential. The rest optional.

[///M Breadvan]

Gutted for you mate. I did exactly the same earlier this year in my Coupe.

Like everyone has said. Main thing is that you are still here and the car can be replaced.

Hurts like hell though doesnt it?

['Yadi]

Add me to the list of been there and done that - two months into owning my S50 MC. Span at least twice on a greasy road on a wet day and ended up in a hedge and I was genuinely being careful, not speeding and I'd checked the FK452 tyres and pressures before I set out for Wales because it was a long trip and I'd seen the weather forecast. The recovery driver told me he regularly picked up cars from the same spot and the evidence was there in various coloured car parts in the hedge.

My car was deemed too expensive to repair by the insurance (ACS suspension etc) with similar sort of damage to panel and suspension so I had to endure the ridiculous payout offers until we agreed a value.

I've spoken to the new owner who bought it from the breaker the insurer handed it over to - it seems anything can be done for a budget if you get the right team on it and the car wasn't 'categorised'(?) as a result of the accident. I'd toyed with the idea of buying it and having it repaired but realistically with my mindset I'd forever be worrying that the new noise I could hear, or the subtle change in performance would be down to the accident and I'd never feel 100% comfortable in it again.

As others have said the important thing is you walked away and no-one else was injured - I got ribbed for weeks by colleagues afterwards - but started looking for and bought another MC very soon afterwards. Straight back on the horse and all that. Although I'm even more careful in the wet now but loving the Z3 as much as always

[c_w]

I am convinced that there are 2 completely different versions of the Z3M out there - and I don't mean S50s ans S54s.

I admit that the snow and ice trips were slow, and needed a lot of concentration - it was embarassing being overtaken by Nissan Micras - but I still enjoyed every minute.

I think being overtaken by Nissan Micras in poor weather sums it up!

In the dry they are easily driven very hard, but in current weather conditions the difference from feeling "grip" and to no grip is a fine line. A short wheelbase, light rear with wide tyres, tight LSD and big power means they can be much twitchier than other RWD cars.

I guess when changing lanes the driver was not in 5th, maybe 4th or even 3rd and maybe accelerated fairly hard, one wheel on the whiteline and it'll oversteer left. A similar thing happened to me not long after I had bought the car; overtaking a car doing about 35 entering a N/S limit, dropped to 2nd and accelerated, traction was fine until the left hand rear tyre was on the white line and I ended up at near 45 degrees facing the car I was overtaking! It was dry but very cold, the outer wheel had more traction.

However wet grip is very good, even my stiffened car is fine in the wet, however power/traction coming out of corners always needs consideration and for the reasons given above the transition from grip to a snappy rear in is much less than in "normal" cars.

[Schnitzer]

That is a sad sight! My M got written off last year around this time. At least you are ok. Thats the main thing.

[siwilson]

Sorry to see another dead ///M

I read a theory a while back that suggested the reason for more of the S50s spinning on slippery roads was a combination of the lack of traction control or DSC and also the characteristics of the clutch pack LSD. The theory was that when one wheel loses traction, the other to pushes you sideways a bit and then the clutch pack LSD 'sntaches' and throws you even further round. In an S50 you have nothing but your wits and luck to save you, whereas in an S54 the traction control comes in preventing the start of the spin. If it does get out of shape then the DSC kicks in to save you. It can all happen so fast that you wouldn't neccessarily see the dash lights even if you were looking.

This might suggest that S50 drivers, with their lack of driver aids, are better than those with S54s

Since the non ///Ms have the Torsen diff they would behave differently again, regardless of whether or not they had traction control or DSC.

The good advice already given stands though. Decent tyres, appropriate speed for the conditions and keep your wits about you!

Si.

[Boysie]

This might suggest that S50 drivers, with their lack of driver aids, are better than those with S54s


Si.

Here Here

Ray