Asked one of the local BMW main dealers for a quote for Inspection I service. They also suggested that since the Inspection II service was two years ago there should also be a coolant change and brake fluid change.
Since they very rarely see cars much over fours year old, it took almost half an hour to produce a detailed estimate.
I was shocked by the quote which contained a discounted labour charge since the car is over four years old.
Quote including VAT was £1038.98. Apparently inspection II is about £1200
Another BMW franchise quoted me £446 without the coolant change. They will also collect the car and bring it back to the house.
I am a little confused as to why two BMW garages in the same area, about 25 miles apart, quote such different amounts.
Inspection I
Jonttt,
I think you are spot on about company cars. Longer time between services and reduced margins on new cars means they have to get their money somehow.
Labour at over £120/hour outside London is just exorbitant.
I got the impression that they would have liked the work, but it was so rare to receive a request like this, the service people just did not know how to respond. However, with that type of response things are unlikely to change!
I think you are spot on about company cars. Longer time between services and reduced margins on new cars means they have to get their money somehow.
Labour at over £120/hour outside London is just exorbitant.
I got the impression that they would have liked the work, but it was so rare to receive a request like this, the service people just did not know how to respond. However, with that type of response things are unlikely to change!
According to the service sheets I have had for mine, the ///M should have its valve clearances checked at BOTH Insp I and Insp II.
See http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10538
Cheers R.
See http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10538
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Thanks Boysie,
Have used Munich Legends for over ten years and dealt with mainly Barnie and then Stuart. In fact I have bought and sold five BM's through them. However, I wanted to consider options for a number of reasons. The main one being a slight loss of confidence when a recommendation almost cost a new engine.
Have used Munich Legends for over ten years and dealt with mainly Barnie and then Stuart. In fact I have bought and sold five BM's through them. However, I wanted to consider options for a number of reasons. The main one being a slight loss of confidence when a recommendation almost cost a new engine.
Hi Tilly
Barnies gone "Hooray"
new management now
I lost confidence had a fallout with barnie
Had work done on car O rings on vanos,
they left engine oil all over the engine bay
"Barnie said leave it to me"
I believe that was his problem, he left to many things.
I sorted myself
They seem have got there act together now
I'm glad I went back
worth a chat to them now
Ray
Barnies gone "Hooray"
new management now
I lost confidence had a fallout with barnie
Had work done on car O rings on vanos,
they left engine oil all over the engine bay
"Barnie said leave it to me"
I believe that was his problem, he left to many things.
I sorted myself
They seem have got there act together now
I'm glad I went back
worth a chat to them now
Ray
Ray
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
Ray very interesting.
Mine was over a Vanos. Lumpy iddle, Legends said it would not fail. Within 50 miles it failed dumping oil all over floor of the garage.
Fitted a Dr Vanos unit last November. Unfortunately three months ago one of the seals failed. Engineers think it may have been a result of faulty fitting. Either when the unit was rebuilt of when the Vanos was fitted and a seal was split. I will never know. New seals had to be ordered and fitted by a different garage. I have to admit I am still not that happy with the Vanos. Despite claims, it growls and the iddle when the car is hot can be very uneven.
Its going to have a thorough diagnostic check soon because I want to get to the bottom of this issue and get it rectified.
Mine was over a Vanos. Lumpy iddle, Legends said it would not fail. Within 50 miles it failed dumping oil all over floor of the garage.
Fitted a Dr Vanos unit last November. Unfortunately three months ago one of the seals failed. Engineers think it may have been a result of faulty fitting. Either when the unit was rebuilt of when the Vanos was fitted and a seal was split. I will never know. New seals had to be ordered and fitted by a different garage. I have to admit I am still not that happy with the Vanos. Despite claims, it growls and the iddle when the car is hot can be very uneven.
Its going to have a thorough diagnostic check soon because I want to get to the bottom of this issue and get it rectified.
Hi Tilly
Did Munich legends fit the vanos?
I have been told you need to change the bearings? connecting
to the vanos in the engine to do a thorough job
I may have choosen the wrong bearings
But i can see old with new does not always work
especially as the vanos works under such high presure
This knowledge was given to me
by munich legends, it made sense
So you are aware that Barnie has gone fron munich Tilly
I look back when BMW dealerships were friendly places
they still wanted your money, but with a smile
My first experience was with Cronks of Banstead
Ray
Did Munich legends fit the vanos?
I have been told you need to change the bearings? connecting
to the vanos in the engine to do a thorough job
I may have choosen the wrong bearings
But i can see old with new does not always work
especially as the vanos works under such high presure
This knowledge was given to me
by munich legends, it made sense
So you are aware that Barnie has gone fron munich Tilly
I look back when BMW dealerships were friendly places
they still wanted your money, but with a smile
My first experience was with Cronks of Banstead
Ray
Ray
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
Hi Ray.
Yes Munich Legends fitted the Dr vanos unit after I was told by them the old one would not fail. After the vanos was replaced all was well for a few months then I started to have idle problems. Took the car to another garage. They could not understand what was causing the problems. No fault codes and the knowledge that the Vanos had recently been replaced baffled everybody, especially since the car was failing the emissions test. They even rang the States to talk to Chris Gant at Dr Vanos. After testing and replacing various sensors they finally looked at the Vanos solenoid seals. One was split allowing significant cam retard. replacement did mainly cure the problem but I still have a issue with idle when hot and as I said the unit is growling. The old one never did.
The car will be picked up later this month by Chandlers in Angmering who will do the full inspection one service and do a diagnostic check of everything. Hopefully they will be able to get the the bottom of the problems. When I get the facts I'll post the outcome.
Funny you metion Cronk of Banstead. My wife's Z3 originally came from them almost thirteen years ago.
Yes Munich Legends fitted the Dr vanos unit after I was told by them the old one would not fail. After the vanos was replaced all was well for a few months then I started to have idle problems. Took the car to another garage. They could not understand what was causing the problems. No fault codes and the knowledge that the Vanos had recently been replaced baffled everybody, especially since the car was failing the emissions test. They even rang the States to talk to Chris Gant at Dr Vanos. After testing and replacing various sensors they finally looked at the Vanos solenoid seals. One was split allowing significant cam retard. replacement did mainly cure the problem but I still have a issue with idle when hot and as I said the unit is growling. The old one never did.
The car will be picked up later this month by Chandlers in Angmering who will do the full inspection one service and do a diagnostic check of everything. Hopefully they will be able to get the the bottom of the problems. When I get the facts I'll post the outcome.
Funny you metion Cronk of Banstead. My wife's Z3 originally came from them almost thirteen years ago.
Diagnostic update.
Nothing showing on the diagnostics. However, Chandlers think it could be valve clearances slightly out and this will be adjusted during the inspection 1. According to the engineer a very slight change can cause a lumpy idle when hot.
They are keeping the car overnight so everything is cold when all adjustments made. Let’s hope it solves the problem.
Nothing showing on the diagnostics. However, Chandlers think it could be valve clearances slightly out and this will be adjusted during the inspection 1. According to the engineer a very slight change can cause a lumpy idle when hot.
They are keeping the car overnight so everything is cold when all adjustments made. Let’s hope it solves the problem.
Thanks Ray but have new update.
Valve clearances checked and six were tight. Retightened with new shimes and new gasket and everything was OK. Garage said car running perfectly after thoughout testing and they would return it to me late afternoon.
Late afternoon garage has rung to say that on start up very lumpy iddle. So they asked if they could keep it overnight for further investigation. Again no fault codes showing. All are really baffled by this since, cam sensors, vanos, idle speed control valve, MAF have all been replaced.
Valve clearances checked and six were tight. Retightened with new shimes and new gasket and everything was OK. Garage said car running perfectly after thoughout testing and they would return it to me late afternoon.
Late afternoon garage has rung to say that on start up very lumpy iddle. So they asked if they could keep it overnight for further investigation. Again no fault codes showing. All are really baffled by this since, cam sensors, vanos, idle speed control valve, MAF have all been replaced.
Last edited by Tilly on Wed 30 Jun, 2010 19:43, edited 1 time in total.
Hi
but Mine is not that smooth
There is a certain amount of change in the revs on start up
I assumed the engine being cold/choke and the management system working?
Then it smooths out
i hope you get it sorted
Ray
I am no mechanicTilly wrote: rung to say that on start up very lumpy iddle..
but Mine is not that smooth
There is a certain amount of change in the revs on start up
I assumed the engine being cold/choke and the management system working?
Then it smooths out
i hope you get it sorted
Ray
Ray
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
Hi Ray,
Yes the cold start management system appears to be working. As you say you can get initially a little lumpiness but my problem occurred over a range of engine temperatures and at worst it was very lumpy.
However, today the garage seems to have a result. On start-up a fault code now has appeared. The solenoid control circuit of the idle-speed control valve indicates that the valve is sticking. A new valve (£200) is to be fitted tomorrow. I thought that it had already been replaced but checking the records the throttle position sensor had been replaced, my mistake. Let’s see if this cures it.
Yes the cold start management system appears to be working. As you say you can get initially a little lumpiness but my problem occurred over a range of engine temperatures and at worst it was very lumpy.
However, today the garage seems to have a result. On start-up a fault code now has appeared. The solenoid control circuit of the idle-speed control valve indicates that the valve is sticking. A new valve (£200) is to be fitted tomorrow. I thought that it had already been replaced but checking the records the throttle position sensor had been replaced, my mistake. Let’s see if this cures it.
Hi Ray,
The tree has been well used during the last 6,000 miles.
New brake discs/pads and pipes, Vanos replaced, rear-diff welds sorted, new air-con condenser and a variety of sensors and valves all add up. This is in addition to normal servicing costs and sundries like tyres.
When all those costs are added together it is more than the value of the car. But very few cars can or should be viewed as an investment. People spend fortunes on hobbies. The Z is mine so I am going to ensure I keep enjoy driving it. That means it has to be mechanically well maintained. I personally am not that bothered about the cosmetics so Blackie still has all the bumps, scratches and dents it has picked up in over thirteen years of use with the proviso that any bare metal is treated and painted. I was quoted for a full bare metal re spray of £6000. If I had that done I would be afraid to drive it. So nothing is coming off the tree to pay for that.
I have now got to move on the touring next. After 80,000 miles discs, seals, belts, shocks are going to need sorting. I’m going to have to plant a new tree for that one, but that is another story.
The tree has been well used during the last 6,000 miles.
New brake discs/pads and pipes, Vanos replaced, rear-diff welds sorted, new air-con condenser and a variety of sensors and valves all add up. This is in addition to normal servicing costs and sundries like tyres.
When all those costs are added together it is more than the value of the car. But very few cars can or should be viewed as an investment. People spend fortunes on hobbies. The Z is mine so I am going to ensure I keep enjoy driving it. That means it has to be mechanically well maintained. I personally am not that bothered about the cosmetics so Blackie still has all the bumps, scratches and dents it has picked up in over thirteen years of use with the proviso that any bare metal is treated and painted. I was quoted for a full bare metal re spray of £6000. If I had that done I would be afraid to drive it. So nothing is coming off the tree to pay for that.
I have now got to move on the touring next. After 80,000 miles discs, seals, belts, shocks are going to need sorting. I’m going to have to plant a new tree for that one, but that is another story.
Touring is now sorted, discs, pads, belts, thermostat and cam cover and door seals and I have killed the money tree.
Unfortunately, Blackie is still not a happy chap! Although the idle speed valve has been fitted the erratic idle is still there.
On starting from cold the engine settles down after a few seconds. However when warm on idle it can jump from 1000 rpm to 600 and then stick at that with a jumpy tick over until accelerator is depressed. It may then return to 800 rpm and be smooth or anywhere else below 1200 rpm and be rough. Under power there is no loss of performance.
Garage are perplexed and so am I. The problem is it is not occurring all the time. However, even when it is apparently operating normally I still don’t feel confident because although the engine runs relatively smoothly the exhaust is still pooping slightly.
When we are on holiday the garage will have the car for an accurate diagnosis. When I get that and I am happy then they can proceed with the repairs. The problem is that these days good engineers who look at the symptoms and then make a suggested diagnosis of the problem with a recommended course of action are hard to fine. If the computer says no problem then there is no problem. If there obviously is a problem then you must replace everything you possibly can and hope a solution is achieved.
This is beginning to get very expensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately, Blackie is still not a happy chap! Although the idle speed valve has been fitted the erratic idle is still there.
On starting from cold the engine settles down after a few seconds. However when warm on idle it can jump from 1000 rpm to 600 and then stick at that with a jumpy tick over until accelerator is depressed. It may then return to 800 rpm and be smooth or anywhere else below 1200 rpm and be rough. Under power there is no loss of performance.
Garage are perplexed and so am I. The problem is it is not occurring all the time. However, even when it is apparently operating normally I still don’t feel confident because although the engine runs relatively smoothly the exhaust is still pooping slightly.
When we are on holiday the garage will have the car for an accurate diagnosis. When I get that and I am happy then they can proceed with the repairs. The problem is that these days good engineers who look at the symptoms and then make a suggested diagnosis of the problem with a recommended course of action are hard to fine. If the computer says no problem then there is no problem. If there obviously is a problem then you must replace everything you possibly can and hope a solution is achieved.
This is beginning to get very expensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know it's a different engine but I have experienced the sudden drop in idle revs and lumpy idle which turned out to be a small rubber bung in the inlet that had split. I noticed it when cleaning the engine bay and just replaced it with some silicon rubber tube blocked off at one end, well since then the problem dissapeared.
Now it may not be this particulary as your engine is quite a different beast but I would check for any small leaks on your inlet manifold as it maybe just something as a small split in one of the ancillary pipes which is not visable unless you really look for it. Just my penny worth but thought it might give you some fresh idea's.
Now it may not be this particulary as your engine is quite a different beast but I would check for any small leaks on your inlet manifold as it maybe just something as a small split in one of the ancillary pipes which is not visable unless you really look for it. Just my penny worth but thought it might give you some fresh idea's.
Aceman
Arctic Silver '98 Z3M
Previously;
Bright RED '99 Z3 2.8
Rocking seats ? You need seat bushes click HERE
Arctic Silver '98 Z3M
Previously;
Bright RED '99 Z3 2.8
Rocking seats ? You need seat bushes click HERE
Hi Ade,
I wondered about the plus and discussed this with garage. They said if plugs or coil were at fault the problems would be all the time with a major misfire under power. Although it has had an Inspection 1, I’m going to take your advice and change the plugs. Let’s see if this cures the problem.
Once again Aceman thanks for the suggestion. I thought it may have been an air leak. I’ll have another good look to see if anything is visible. I have tried all the usual places and everything appears secure. One more look won’t be a problem though.
I wondered about the plus and discussed this with garage. They said if plugs or coil were at fault the problems would be all the time with a major misfire under power. Although it has had an Inspection 1, I’m going to take your advice and change the plugs. Let’s see if this cures the problem.
Once again Aceman thanks for the suggestion. I thought it may have been an air leak. I’ll have another good look to see if anything is visible. I have tried all the usual places and everything appears secure. One more look won’t be a problem though.
lumpy idle
This already covered - Dont forget the BASIC's all engines need suck,squeeze,bang and blow however smart their management systems are and simple things can mess with the cars "brain"
Well it was a nice sunny day. So I thought I would try to get to grips with the lumpy idle.
Fitted a new set of plugs and checked all the hose connections. Could not find any obvious leaks so I don’t think the problem is there. A short run with the new plugs indicates that there certainly is an improvement. I’ll need a bit longer to see if the problem is finally sorted.
Plugs plus a tube of copper based anti-seize compound was over £100. So with an inspection 1, aircon condenser repaired and work to rectify the idle problem carried out over the last few months the bill stands at £2351.23.
Still over thirteen and half years total maintenance costs excluding tax, insurance, fuel and depreciation has been £15,904 which averages out at about £1200/year. Costly or not it is all relative. How can you estimate the cost of pleasure?. All I can says Blackie has been fun, fun, fun. Long may it continue.
Fitted a new set of plugs and checked all the hose connections. Could not find any obvious leaks so I don’t think the problem is there. A short run with the new plugs indicates that there certainly is an improvement. I’ll need a bit longer to see if the problem is finally sorted.
Plugs plus a tube of copper based anti-seize compound was over £100. So with an inspection 1, aircon condenser repaired and work to rectify the idle problem carried out over the last few months the bill stands at £2351.23.
Still over thirteen and half years total maintenance costs excluding tax, insurance, fuel and depreciation has been £15,904 which averages out at about £1200/year. Costly or not it is all relative. How can you estimate the cost of pleasure?. All I can says Blackie has been fun, fun, fun. Long may it continue.
