Z3M V8 Conversion

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pingu
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by pingu » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 19:37

Deano1712 wrote:Image
Good data-sets there. The Air Inlet v Engine Bay will show how well the heat shield is working. Where in the engine bay will the sensor be? I'd be tempted to have it on a long wire so it can be moved around.

I assume the data is recorded against time. If so, you can use a GPS tracker to record the position and altitude. Speed can be calculated from adjacent data points. I've got an Amaryllo GPS data logger, and I can calculate the speed and could cross-refer the data-sets to get the info you want. The maths is complicated (simple triangulation gives too big an error - the curve of the Earth needs to be taken into account :shock: ), but it's all been done before, so there is no need to reinvent the wheel :wink: .

Are there any systems running near critical at the moment? Or is this when you find out :shock: .

Considering the power you are trying to stop, have you considered measuring brake temperatures as well?
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Robert T » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 19:47

Nice use of an Arduino. I've never done anything more than a few simple circuits with mine. I have a Raspberry Pi now and I'm determined to do something a bit more with it... you've set me thinking of a little project to put some modern technology into an car from another era. :D

Cheers R.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 20:16

pingu wrote:Are there any systems running near critical at the moment? Or is this when you find out :shock: .

Considering the power you are trying to stop, have you considered measuring brake temperatures as well?
The coolant has been occasionally hot but I hope that is fixed with the bigger radiator and fan shroud. Im hoping it will all be ok but we will see. For the engine bay I will put the sensor near the engine controller. The sensors run on a 1-wire databus so I will run 3 wires (data + power and earth) around the car. The sensors can be connected in the circuit anywhere and lots of them too. Where on the brakes would be best to measure? It would be nice to measure clutch fluid temperature since I have had a long pedal a few times. I'm not sure where to measure it though since its most likely getting hot in a localised position.

There are GPS shields for the Arduino so thats an option one day. I was also thinking of using a wireless sheild and use that to automatically upload all the logged data into the Cloud. The possibilities are endless!
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by pingu » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 20:42

Deano1712 wrote:
pingu wrote:Are there any systems running near critical at the moment? Or is this when you find out :shock: .

Considering the power you are trying to stop, have you considered measuring brake temperatures as well?
The coolant has been occasionally hot but I hope that is fixed with the bigger radiator and fan shroud. Im hoping it will all be ok but we will see. For the engine bay I will put the sensor near the engine controller. The sensors run on a 1-wire databus so I will run 3 wires (data + power and earth) around the car. The sensors can be connected in the circuit anywhere and lots of them too. Where on the brakes would be best to measure? It would be nice to measure clutch fluid temperature since I have had a long pedal a few times. I'm not sure where to measure it though since its most likely getting hot in a localised position.

There are GPS shields for the Arduino so thats an option one day. I was also thinking of using a wireless sheild and use that to automatically upload all the logged data into the Cloud. The possibilities are endless!
Fantastic stuff. I think the way to measure brake temp would be with and infra-red beam device. It's how they do in F1, so it must be the cheapest of all possible options :shock: .

If GPS is an affordable optional extra, you've got to do it. The data would make so much more sense.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Boysie » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 10:51

Having to live with either of you two
Must be like living with the Doc from back to the future

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm keep my ears peeled for a fluxs capacitor to be memtioned
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by chrisp_1 » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 20:52

Boysie wrote:Having to live with either of you two
Must be like living with the Doc from back to the future

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm keep my ears peeled for a fluxs capacitor to be memtioned
:roflmao:

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Robert T » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 21:03

Flux capacitor? That thing will turn the planet backwards when it's finished! :shock:

Ceramic coating of exhaust manifolds came up on another forum the other day, Mark - someone considering it for a Healey. Have you been able to tell if your ceramic coating has helped? At some point I will have to replace the exhaust on mine, and as it is not a cross-flow engine, the carb sits directly above the hot exhaust manifold and can cause problems when the car is hot. If it isn't too bad pricewise, I might get any new manifold coated before it goes on the car.

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by chrisp_1 » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 21:13

Just looking back through this thread :rtm: even 2nd time round the details make me think 'I need to sit down' - awesome work Deano, boy is that gonna crane some necks on the High St. :twisted:

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 21:29

Yes your right I think, it sounds wild now!
Robert T wrote:Ceramic coating of exhaust manifolds came up on another forum the other day, Mark - someone considering it for a Healey. Have you been able to tell if your ceramic coating has helped? Cheers R.
Rob - I cant really tell whether it is helping with temperatures. Maybe it has since the car has not burst into flames! There is quite a lot of tubing in the engine bay. The coating has certainly stopped the mild steel headers rusting and has been durable so far. Cost was around £300 I think but would be cheaper for a single smaller manifold I guess.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Robert T » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 21:38

Cheers, Mark. I'll have a think about it. Currently having the engine rebuilt and then new tyres when it is back on the road, so I am a little while off a new exhaust yet. Just thought I'd ask whilst I was thinking about it. :)

Cheers R.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Jonttt » Tue 16 Apr, 2013 00:10

:bow

I think you need to measure flight time :wink:

Can you change the colour of that display. I would have an aversion to it I'm afraid as it looks too Audi for my liking.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Thu 27 Jun, 2013 18:05

---Update---

I got the display working 90% now. Its showing all the temps and they all seem ok when driving. Coolant ranges 85-98. Oil a bit cool = not hotter than 70. Diff and transmission get up to around 50degC. Engine bay 60 max. I have it displaying AFR but the reading is a bit all over the place so I'm going to try out an AEM sensor soon which has been recommended. I need to do more tuning on the engine after a dyno run showed it is running a bit lean at the top end...more later on that.

Here is the display with a few more parameters crammed onto it:
Image

Not sure If I have posted engine bays pics in the current state so here are a couple just in case:
Image
Image

Now for some action...

I had day out on a run last month with the lads in Wales. Here is a 10-minute video compilation. Fun day it was :-)
Enjoy...


Today I had the car on a dyno, not before time. Happy with the power. Its running lean though above 3000rpm at WOT up to one point. There's more power to come then haha but I need to get on with some more tuning. Hopefully its just the top end of the MAF calibration that's a bit out. I need the AEM wideband before I can start on the tuning. Its a shame the Innovate unit is not showing a believable reading - waste of £160 :-(


The noise of the exhausts is ace. I had two random cars pull alongside in Leeds today dishing out compliments :D
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by foler » Thu 27 Jun, 2013 19:51

For two month I will sell my car and start my swap with same engine, but in e36. Your topic is one of my favorite.
1. I saw several dynos with this engine and all have around 530hp. Maybe some comment on this?
2. ok, now you have some miles on swap. Do you can write some impression about car? How much is faster than other s50b32 z3ms? How about torque, do you need to change gears like with s50b32 to accelerate? Do you can compare fuel consumption?

thanks and I really hope that my swap will be good as your.

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by c_w » Thu 27 Jun, 2013 20:24

With double the torque of the 3.2 engine it must feel insanely pokey! :shock:

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by aceman » Thu 27 Jun, 2013 21:09

Notice you went back to RS Tuning to see Paul how is he doing ?

You don't mention what bhp and torque you got or are you waiting until you have tweeked it to announce the news. :D
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Jonttt » Thu 27 Jun, 2013 21:40

aceman wrote:Notice you went back to RS Tuning to see Paul how is he doing ?

You don't mention what bhp and torque you got or are you waiting until you have tweeked it to announce the news. :D
Watch the dyno vid to the end and the graph and stats are shown :rtm:
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by whiteminks » Thu 27 Jun, 2013 22:14

Looks crazy! In the nicest possible way! A bit like its owner? :D
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by aceman » Fri 28 Jun, 2013 07:29

Jonttt wrote:
aceman wrote:Notice you went back to RS Tuning to see Paul how is he doing ?

You don't mention what bhp and torque you got or are you waiting until you have tweeked it to announce the news. :D
Watch the dyno vid to the end and the graph and stats are shown :rtm:
Ahh the video must have frozen before it ended. Impressive figures !
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Fri 28 Jun, 2013 14:15

foler wrote:For two month I will sell my car and start my swap with same engine, but in e36. Your topic is one of my favorite.
1. I saw several dynos with this engine and all have around 530hp. Maybe some comment on this?
2. ok, now you have some miles on swap. Do you can write some impression about car? How much is faster than other s50b32 z3ms? How about torque, do you need to change gears like with s50b32 to accelerate? Do you can compare fuel consumption?

thanks and I really hope that my swap will be good as your.
Foler - I have answered most of these questions to you before. The car has tons of grunt. Third and fourth gears are all you need. The dyno operator said it topped out at 142mph in forth! I suggest you buy a standard LS3 and fit a good cam to it. The GM hot cam is old tech and the best cams will get you close to 500hp at the wheels. Mine only gave 432. I have been considering a change of cam but its not for this year now.

Ian - Paul wasnt there. Spent about 90 mins there with Andy. Will probably go back in a month or so.

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by pingu » Fri 28 Jun, 2013 22:08

I'm really surprised that the test was done with the bonnet up.

It would be interesting to have tested it again with the bonnet shut. I would expect air flow to be less as well as the air density. I'd be interested to know if it would be significant or negligible.

Looking good :D .
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Gazza » Sat 29 Jun, 2013 16:28

Nice video Mark, you need to blip the throttle between gear changes ala 'Bullitt' :lol:
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Sun 01 Jun, 2014 21:10

Long time since the last update...the car has been going great and I haven't been doing any work on it. However recently I noticed loss of power at high revs. The wideband sensor was showing it leaning out from 4000 up which is not good for the engine. After a head scratch I figured it may be a fuel supply problem and fitted an ebay purchased generic sensor into the fuel inlet...
Image
The fuel pressure should hold constant at 60psi all the time. The bad news was it was falling to less than 50psi at high power; good news that I have easily found the problem and can fix it. The pump I had fitted was a Walbro 255 and I'm really not sure whether this has always been marginal for the engine, or had started to degrade not giving full flow. Other cars have used the Walbro 255 successfully so I'm stuck on that one. For my car I needed a new pump so figured I may as well upgrade to the Walbro 450. That's good for 800hp cars so should do the job! The new pump is a bit bigger than the 255 as seen here:
Image
Fitting the new pump was not so straightforward. Its larger diameter on the inlet end and this stops it fitting into the tank. Progressively cutting more away from the bottom of the pump housing allowed the pump to be fitted higher in the assembly and I got it in ok with some jiggling around. This is the final fit of the pump before it went in...
Image
Another problem I have been having is the Innovate wideband sensor. This has always given erratic readings and at WOT I just treated the reading as a guide not being accurate anywhere near the intended 12:1 AFR. I was recommended the AEM wideband so decided to give that a try. The AEM unit doesn't ever need calibration and is supposed to give a true reading out of the box. Here is the car today up in the air getting the new sensor installed.
Image
After fitting I took it for run and happy happy days! Fuel pressure holding up pretty well, although not perfect. AFR showing 13 to 15:1 AFR at cruise (a bit erratic). At WOT though the reading goes rock solid steady and holds 11.9 and 12:1 through the whole rev range. The engine sounds better and its pulling like a beast. Its never been as fast before so I figure I have never had enough fuel pressure to get full power out of it. On the dyno it gave 530hp but was running lean then to 13:1 at the top end. Fuel supply fixed then 3 years after the conversion!!
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by aceman » Sun 01 Jun, 2014 21:25

Nice one glad you got that one sorted. How about the hot starting have you changed the Ali inlet to plastic to in theory alleviate the heat soak.?
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Sun 01 Jun, 2014 21:34

Ian yes I changed the inlet. I made it out of a piece of soil pipe!
Image
The white version on the pic was made from PVC and not good at high temperature. Soil pipe is ok there but I had to reduce the diameter a bit with a cut and shut job. Its not completely fixed the hot restart problem but its a lot better, probably ok.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by aceman » Sun 01 Jun, 2014 21:45

The theory was correct then about the heat soak. I wonder if you could additionally shield it from the engine or provide some air cooling onto that part.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by fok » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 21:24

My M Coupe runs LS1 with heads, cam, headers and intake and an X5 fuel pump has run it for 10,000 miles so far with no issues.......Could be a cheap fix for the pump issues if you still have them?

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 02:58

Thanks fok, but i have fixed it now with the Walbro 450. Not heard of a x5 pump being used before sounds a good idea. I have my fuel pressure displayed in the car now so I can be sure its always holding up.
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by bazza1966 » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 18:26

OMG I'm in love :oops:
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by mnbrennan » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 19:36

Did you get your garage kitted out deano?

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 20:56

Not yet. I have a months work ahead doing work on the car getting several jobs complete. After that I will start on the garage project. :-)

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Sun 18 Jan, 2015 19:39

Damn bonnet is stuck! I'm fitting a new bonnet and after a few hours of adjustments the damn thing is stuck down on the drivers side latch. Cant shift it :head: There are a few threads around with similar stories but not really helping. It will have to wait till next weekend so some time to think and study. Once free its definitely not going to happen again!
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On a happier note the hardtop is fitted, and looks great. Second day on in nearly two years of ownership so it staying on now for a few months until hot weather. I had it resprayed recently so happy (ish) with the finish. Rear window needs fitting when its a bit warmer. I have a few other Hamann bits to fit so more later...
Image

The garage has been getting a transformation over the last three weeks. Plan was to build an upstairs mezzanine for my woodworking tools leaving space downstairs for the car and metalworking. The hard work is done now so I'm just on with wiring and fitting dust extraction as next job. A few pics below of the job in progress...
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Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Headroom is a bit tight (the garage is 4metres tall) so the clever bit is the whole floor will move up and down on electric motors. 8-)

The upstairs is 16x9'. It feels bigger than I expected, helped by angling the saw so the outfeed goes into the roof void. Here is the garage from the outside. Tardis :D

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by pingu » Sun 18 Jan, 2015 21:24

Lovin' the man-cave :D .
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by maurice the martian » Mon 19 Jan, 2015 07:44

Yeh great cave.
The kit cars lookin good too.

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Brian H » Mon 19 Jan, 2015 09:58

Image

Great workshop BTW, I (sadly) remember Tommy Walsh doing something similar to this using compressed air rams in his ultimate workshop :oops: .

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Del » Mon 19 Jan, 2015 10:50

If it's one of the little cables become detached from catch mechanism (and you can manage to remove one of the grills as I did), I made a simple tool by forming a small hook on the end of a length of green garden wire. After probing into holes in the catch for a just a couple of minutes, I managed to release the catch in question. :D

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Mon 19 Jan, 2015 12:48

Thanks Brian but I have been trying that. I managed to get it undone a couple of turns. This has released pressure off the bonnet stops, but not helped. The end of the plunger is getting chewed up since its not possible to get a screwdriver directly onto it. BMW took measures to stop intruder opening the bonnet, and made a pretty good job of it! There is a piece of bodywork in the way. I was hoping to completely unscrew the thing but there must be a dozen turns or more left to go.
Del wrote:If it's one of the little cables become detached from catch mechanism (and you can manage to remove one of the grills as I did), I made a simple tool by forming a small hook on the end of a length of green garden wire. After probing into holes in the catch for a just a couple of minutes, I managed to release the catch in question. :D
Del - good advice. Do I need to get at it from underneath or on top? I can't visualise where to hook onto. Would I be pushing or pulling from the centre (for the drivers side catch)?

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Brian H » Mon 19 Jan, 2015 13:46

A couple of pics which may help.

The latch for the pin is on the left hand side of the bonnet catch so you would need to push it open if using the grill opening.

Image

From underneath

Image

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 19:50

I read a lot online this week about stuck bonnets and feared a time consuming job. Happily a liberal squirt with WD40 and a sharp tug got the bonnet open ok. Phew!
The cable was knackered and the lower catches very stiff. I'm not good with stuff like lubricating catches and hinges so there's a lesson learned in here to lube all things once a year or so. I took a trip to the dealers and got new parts to replace the whole shooting match - upper and lower catches, screws and new cables. The bonnet is brand new and looks good so the old slightly rusty catches were letting it down a bit.
Image

Its a fiddly job fitting the parts - plan for a couple of hours if you plan to do same. Getting the bonnet aligned right has been a few hours on top of that but its getting there. I need to adjust the bumper next and the headlights too. The bonnet release was well worth doing; feels solid. I tend to open the bonnet a lot so it needs to be reliable.
Image
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by maurice the martian » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 20:19

Gud stuff Mark .glad u sorted it
M

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aceman
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  M roadster S50
Location: Wakefield

Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by aceman » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 20:36

You mean you get asked to open the bonnet loads :lol:

Looking good Mark, done sod all with mine :(
Aceman

Arctic Silver '98 Z3M

Previously;
Bright RED '99 Z3 2.8

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Joycey
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Joycey » Wed 28 Jan, 2015 10:44

I have read this thread so many times, the envy i feel is unreal. One day in the future i may have to follow in your foot steps.

Top work!

Lee
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Dino D » Wed 28 Jan, 2015 13:15

Joycey wrote:I have read this thread so many times, the envy i feel is unreal. One day in the future i may have to follow in your foot steps.

Top work!

Lee
Got to agree.
For me a Z seems ideally suited to a V8.
Lovely rumble that you wouldn't expect from a small roadster and effortless torque to exploit on demand.
The German Cobra!
Have to make a plan to see and hear this car in action one day. Just awesome'

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Joycey » Wed 28 Jan, 2015 16:02

Funny you should mention that Dino i have in my possession a BMW prototype engine. An M62 twin turbo tuned by Cosworth. The same engines they eventually put in the Bentley arnage.

So watch this space.

Lee
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Dino D » Wed 28 Jan, 2015 16:33

A Bentley engine in a Z3...now that's quite a change from 'screaming 6'. It must make all it's torque from just over idle... would be fun see to how little revs you need to sustain a slide!

You welcome to test fit it into mine when I come over.
Might have to reinforce the diff mounts a tiny bit...

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Deano1712
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Wed 28 Jan, 2015 20:43

Haha thanks for the comments. You are right the car suits the v8 well. Here is me stuck in a convoy, but you get a feel for it.
GOPR0007: http://youtu.be/s0FnFcUVwwk
Z3M with a few mods...and a little bit more power

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Jonttt
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Jonttt » Thu 29 Jan, 2015 00:28

Lovin the new garage, I must keep up, did not realise you had moved but good to see larger garage was high on the list of requirements :wink:
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
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Althulas
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Althulas » Thu 29 Jan, 2015 02:23

How much did the dealers charge for the new catches? I referbed mine but still not happy with the results.
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Deano1712
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Thu 29 Jan, 2015 11:57

Althulas wrote:How much did the dealers charge for the new catches? I referbed mine but still not happy with the results.
They were around £100 for both cables and upper and lower catches.
Z3M with a few mods...and a little bit more power

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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Dino D » Thu 29 Jan, 2015 15:53

Deano1712 wrote:Haha thanks for the comments. You are right the car suits the v8 well. Here is me stuck in a convoy, but you get a feel for it.
GOPR0007: http://youtu.be/s0FnFcUVwwk
Thanks for that, please feel free to post more but it's giving serious V8 envy!

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Deano1712
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Re: Z3M V8 Conversion

Post by Deano1712 » Fri 30 Jan, 2015 16:30

Hamann diffusers fitted today. I love 'em :D
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Last edited by Deano1712 on Tue 19 Sep, 2017 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
Z3M with a few mods...and a little bit more power

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