Quick question - for s54 owners

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Thu 09 Sep, 2010 17:54

Just out of curiosity have any of you had bearing shell failures? and if so is there any noise/fault which makes it diagnosable?

A friend of mine may be in the market for an s54 and he wants to know what to look out for. Also are there any other things to look out for?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Thu 09 Sep, 2010 18:24

I know of 2 that failed - one dramatically on the M42. Blew a hole in the engine casing.
Might be a picture on a very early thread.
No warning just bang.
It was identified that a small batch of sub standard parts were used during a 6 week time frame that led to the problem.
I would assume, rightly or wrongly, that any likely failures would have taken place by now as most S54s must have a reasonable mileage on them now.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Thu 09 Sep, 2010 19:47

Ok thanks for the help Phil, any idea what 'batch' of cars were affected?

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 13:18

I have a 2002 S54 M Coupe. The bearing shell on cylinder No. 5 went on mine at 33k miles in August 2009. It was going very sweetly at the time and then it suddenly started to sound like a Kango hammer. BMW gave me a new engine FOC but I have my doubts that other owners would be so lucky.

If I were to buy a S54 MC or MR, I'd replace the bearing shells, and more importantly, replace the con-rod bolts with ARPs, as a preventive measure. Apparently, it cost about £500 - £600 to get this done at a good Indy garage

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 19:03

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... hlight=s54

This was one of the threads

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 19:24

Phil wrote:http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... hlight=s54

This was one of the threads

You'll see in that thread that I was in correspondence with BMW UK as far back as 2004 about the known bearing shell failure issue, and as far as the MC and MR was concerned, BMW was in denial that the problem could occur. When my MC suffered the bearing shell failure, BMW UK had no legal alternative but to give me a new engine FOC because I had copious correspondence on this subject before it happened.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 19:52

Thanks for the replies..i'll keep it in mind!

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:08

Exdos if a bearing shell failure happened now do you think I could get it covered under warranty? I've just purchased an s54 this week. Its done under 50k so still has potential to go pop?

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:41

shantybeater wrote:Exdos if a bearing shell failure happened now do you think I could get it covered under warranty? I've just purchased an s54 this week. Its done under 50k so still has potential to go pop?

My MC's original engine had to suffer a BS failure before BMW would do anything for me. However, when it failed, they sorted it out FOC under what they describe as "goodwill" but what I consider to be their legal obligation to me. Obviously, the greater the time between manufacture or the higher the mileage and BS failure the harder it is for an owner to put the onus on BMW to put things right FOC. In your case, an 8 year old engine that's done 50k miles might be difficult to convince a court that yours had a manufacturing defect. Personally, in your case, I'd just bite the bullet and get the con-rod bolts and bearing shells upgraded at an Indy garage for your own peace of mind.

In my own case, the correspondence between me and BMW was well-known on this and the z3mcoupe.com forums, so BMW UK knew that I would air my case in public. PLUS, my BS failure occurred when I was at the BMW CC International Fahrerlergang at the Nurburgring whilst I was driving around the F1 track in front of a host of other BMW owners and employees! Surely a BMW MC should be able to complete a BMW CC event the same as all the other BMWs at the course? I'm sure that the Judge in the court would've agreed with me.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 11:08

shantybeater wrote:Exdos if a bearing shell failure happened now do you think I could get it covered under warranty? I've just purchased an s54 this week. Its done under 50k so still has potential to go pop?

It must be this one then methinks?

http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/2040618.htm

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 12:15

good detective skills whiteminks

, thanks for the reply exdos I will be getting it done asap. Its a Jan 2002 plate as well so in the high risk batch? (oct 01-feb 02?)

I know this may sound silly but if I stay well away from high revs until its sorted will this decrease the chance of any bearing shells going? I did hear a slight tapping noise at around 2k-2.5k which my S50 doesnt? could this be the 'marble' sounds?

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 12:48

Welcome to the S54 Club James

Cheap car.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 14:52

Thanks Gary

Desiro · Post by **Desiro** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 15:49

Nice car shanty

The pics in the ad do not do it justice.

The seller had emailed me some more but unfortunately you beat me to it

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 15:54

Ah sorry Desiro, it was fate in this case...it was the same car i missed out on two years back when I first started looking for Z3M's, it sold before i got down to see it! Maybe the same will happen to you and in a few years it will be yours!

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 16:15

Nice car, great price

re the noise from the S54 engine you describe, it is a trait of the S54 engine but hard to tell without actually hearing it.

I'm guessing you've never been in an S54 M3 as its obviouly the same with those. They are a highly tuned engine and not as refined as the 3 litres at certain revs and idle.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 16:22

Nope never been in an S54, very similar to my S50 noise wise! i hope it is a trait of the engine, i'll get it looked at asap especially knowing my luck with new cars! (the Vanos failed on my S50 when got it!)

Desiro · Post by **Desiro** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 20:27

shantybeater wrote:Ah sorry Desiro, it was fate in this case...it was the same car i missed out on two years back when I first started looking for Z3M's, it sold before i got down to see it! Maybe the same will happen to you and in a few years it will be yours!

I hope to get one before then but you never know

I'm looking for an M for a friend so we come and have a look at yours.
I will be in touch privately

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sat 11 Sep, 2010 23:19

Ok sounds good

Southcoaster · Post by **Southcoaster** » Sat 25 Sep, 2010 11:38

Phil wrote:I know of 2 that failed - one dramatically on the M42. Blew a hole in the engine casing.
Might be a picture on a very early thread.
No warning just bang.
It was identified that a small batch of sub standard parts were used during a 6 week time frame that led to the problem.
I would assume, rightly or wrongly, that any likely failures would have taken place by now as most S54s must have a reasonable mileage on them now.

Hi, recently purchased a March 01 built S54 with 18500 on the clock - genuine. have done a couple of thousand this month and all sounds quite tight. I drive in a "spirited" manner and after reading this thread I am now a little concerned!!

Does anyone have an idea what six week period the sub-standard shells were fitted?

.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sun 26 Sep, 2010 11:40

I'm pretty sure all s54 engines before 2003 are susceptible

Southcoaster · Post by **Southcoaster** » Sun 26 Sep, 2010 16:39

shantybeater wrote:I'm pretty sure all s54 engines before 2003 are susceptible

I reread the thread and you mentioned earlier that the high risk engines were Oct 01 to Feb02. What has changed you mind?

Also what are the ARP's that exdos refers to?

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Sun 26 Sep, 2010 16:55

shantybeater wrote:
Also what are the ARP's that exdos refers to?

See: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/de ... D=201-6103

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Sun 26 Sep, 2010 19:12

thanks exdos

southcoaster - i found alot of old threads on several different forums and it looks like noone is safe pre-2003

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Mon 27 Sep, 2010 18:44

S54 owners - is this a normal noise?

When i pulled up this evening i heard a ticking noise which didnt sound right. I've literally had the car for a few weeks so not sure if its normal or if its developed since i purchased it.

What i have noticed is it seems to disappear at certain revs and be quite clear at others. It definately increases in speed with the engine. The sound is coming from the middle left of the rocker cover or the left hand side of the block

Any idea what this could be? could it be early signs of bearing shell failure?(been doing alot reading on this recently so i'm probably looking for faults!) It still feels healthy to drive, no lack of power/lumpy idle etc..

Here's the vids, first at idle then one at different revs. You can quite clearly hear the noise.

26secs in the most:

http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r65/ ... 2_3722.mp4

and at 24secs in different revs:

http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r65/ ... 2_3723.mp4

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Mon 27 Sep, 2010 19:08

Your engine sounds very sick! Stop using it and get a good mechanic to look at it ASAP.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Mon 27 Sep, 2010 21:16

It does sound poorly

not so much the tappety sound but the whine

Tim.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Mon 27 Sep, 2010 23:35

There's the potential for whatever it is to fail completely & trash the engine.
I wouldn't risk driving it to the garage. Best tow it or similar or get the mechanic to come to you.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Tue 28 Sep, 2010 07:32

Thanks for the responses. I've got a BMW garage next door and I know one of the mechanics so i'm going to ask his opinion and go from there. The video actually pronounces the noise more than real life but i'm not taking any risks... Either way its due an oil service since it had one 11 months ago but its only covered 2k miles in that time

Several users on z3mcoupe & bimmerforums seem to think its normal or some valve tick (valve clearances). Lets hope its something less sinister!

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Tue 28 Sep, 2010 12:03

My engine sounds similar to yours, I would suggest an adjustment of the Valves as done in Insp II.

The whine is normal.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Tue 28 Sep, 2010 12:26

Yep doesn't sound to bad to me either, remember a recording like this would make even the smoothest sounding engine sound noisier than it actually is. It's probably still worth getting it checked out by someone though.

I would firstly check the spark plugs are tight, there's a slight puff sound that could just be the sound quality but it's worth checking they're tight as it's easy to do yourself.

And as above, get the clearances checked.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Tue 28 Sep, 2010 13:05

Sounds normal on start up to me too. The engine on the S54 is lumpy to start with but soon settles. As Alfie and a few others on here have advised make sure you get the oil temp gauge up to 50 and give it a bit of a run before giving it the full beans.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Tue 28 Sep, 2010 13:38

Thanks for the advice, I'll take it over tonight and mention the sparks/valve clearances and see what BMW say.

It definately doesn't make the ticking from cold, as soon as coolant is up to temp it appears

As for running from cold don't worry I religiously wait for oil to get to 90 and even then ease her in, it was so important with old turbo cars it's stuck with me!!

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 16:22

Just to let people know, i had the car inspected by a service manager tonight and was told it sounded completely normal. The ticking noise and slight whine are both S54 traits (totally new to me)

For anyone who thought otherwise i'm not surprised since the video footage really exaggerates the noises!

Thanks for all the responses!

P.S i'm getting the bearing shells changed over the next few weeks to stop me imagining noises and being a nervous wreck. I really need to find a reputable U.K company to source these uprated ARP bolts, if anyone can point me in the right direction i'd really appreciate it!

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 16:53

Sorry Shanty I've been on hols for a week and would have replied earlier and I agree sounds perfectly normal for an S54 engine (all variants are the same, M3's Z4's).

I remember a colleague of mine getting a brand new M3 S54 company car some years ago and he was so "concerned" by the noise he insisted on the lease company getting an independant inspection on the car and that confirmed it was a normal S54 trait.

I've driven quite a few S54 engined cars now and it is definately normal for them to make this noise.

I think the thing that worries people is that the S54 sounds/feels a lot smoother when cold then when up to temp and thats what gets people worried ie the harder you drive it the more noticeable it is and people assume something is wrong.

As far as I know its just normal tolerances in the VANOS that create the metallic noise when the gears are heated up.

If your getting the bearing shells and ARP's done then agree its worth getting the valve clearances checked as well ie inspection II in the service book is no guarantee they were actually checked (but an experienced BMW technician can tell if they need doing just by listening to the engine

)

I think also your move from an S50 to S54 has emphasised this issue more to you as it is a noticable difference to the S50 which does not really have the same metallic noise.

ps you should have heard mine after my recent Evo run though it does get masked somewhat by the Eisenmanns

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 17:02

Southcoaster wrote: Hi, recently purchased a March 01 built S54 with 18500 on the clock - genuine. have done a couple of thousand this month and all sounds quite tight. I drive in a "spirited" manner and after reading this thread I am now a little concerned!!

Does anyone have an idea what six week period the sub-standard shells were fitted?
.

Hi Southcoaster, welcome to the forum

Have I missed the pics of your car ? would be great to see some in the gallery and more details

ps the bearing shells potentially affect all S54 Z3m's. As is normal with internet forums when the issue was first known about there were all sorts of rumours one of which was that this only affect certain engine runs. so far as I know that was finally established to cover the entire S54 Z3m production run ie to 2003.

The actual problem is that the tolerances were too close and the general conscencious seems to be that those cars with >50k on the clock should be OK now as the tolerances will have increased through were /the problems would have happened by now. But if you have a low mileage car / are getting the rev limit removed to get the extra BHP (it was lowered on the Z3 compared to the M3) then it may be worth getting this done as a precaution.

Its normal to get the ARP's done at the same time to upgraded ones as they have to be removed anyway to change the shell bearings so no extra labour costs.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 18:33

Thanks for the reply Jon,

You are right I think the reason the noises alarmed me is because the S50 doesnt tick like that at all, i'm glad I got it looked at just for ease of mind

I will probably get the valve clearances checked as well just incase, my BMW specialist showed me the shim size difference between the S50 & S54 and its quite alarming how small they are!

I bet the eisenmanns sound great! once i've got a spare bit of cash (and all preventative measures have been carried out) a nice new exhaust system is first on my list!

Do you have any idea where to get these ARP bolts from?

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 18:43

Southcoaster wrote:
shantybeater wrote:I'm pretty sure all s54 engines before 2003 are susceptible
I reread the thread and you mentioned earlier that the high risk engines were Oct 01 to Feb02. What has changed you mind?

Also what are the ARP's that exdos refers to?

Southcoaster - I posted up the same thread on bimmerforums for a bit more feedback, worth a read:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1531020

Randy Forbes: Of the dozen or so (>12) cars I've done the M3 rod bearing recall on, only three (3) did not exhibit signs of movement. So that's an astounding 75% of the S-54 engines that I've been inside of, where the connecting rod bearings have partially rotated.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 23:59

I'm not sure about the "uprated" ARP bolts, drop Randy an email or pm on bimmerforums.

From memory he sells some specially treated kit for job so may be worth looking into that with him (but import taxes may hit hard ?)