Stiff / difficult gear change

[Rocketman]

My Z3M is very difficult to get into first gear. Depressing the clutch appears to disengage the gears OK but going from neutral into first is always very hard. Might be my imagination but appears to be worse as the car warms up? Any suggestions? New gearbox oil / clutch adjustment etc ?

[hornel Z3M]

It does sound like the pressure plate on the clutch to me, but i would change the gearbox oil first to make sure.

[hotrod]

Ive got the same problem, have bought the Earls replacement clutch pipe am having it fitted next week not sure if it will work but it was only 24 quid

ill let you know

Dave

[OldskoolRS]

For the sake of a few minutes work and under a tenner, try bleeding the slave cylinder. The gearchange was poor on my 3 litre when I first got it, bled the slave and later changed the gearbox oil for about £30's worth of fluids and it's much better.

[pingu]

I'd do the following in this order.

1) Confirm slave and master cylinder aren't leaking
2) Bleed clutch system (slave cylinder needs to be inverted to bleed it properly)
3) Replace transmission fluid
4) Earl's hose replacement with DOT 5.1 fluid (bleed brakes at the same time)
Last resort...
5) Replace clutch plate and pressure plate

[Rocketman]

Thanks for the input.

I will work my way thru Pingu's check list and hope I get a result before the final option!

Just to clarify, because Earl's appear to do two clutch hoses, is it the straight ended one I should be ordering?

[pingu]

Thanks for the input.

I will work my way thru Pingu's check list and hope I get a result before the final option!

Just to clarify, because Earl's appear to do two clutch hoses, is it the straight ended one I should be ordering?

There are many threads on the subject. Basically, it depends on whether you have a delay valve. The only way to know is to have a look (not a 5 minute job).

You need to get the car in the air and get the belly plate off. The other threads will show what to look for.

[Alfie]

Took RED out for a nice long crooze round the Riviera last Wednesday. The weather was glorious and temperatures were cooking, but unfortunately as the day went on, the car developed exactly these same gear selection troubles.
Engaging reverse, 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd was pretty much impossible.
Quite embarrassing pulling away from stationary on to a roundabout in 3rd gear!

I've been planning on the Earl's braided hose upgrade for some tme, so I read up on the problem on this forum and spoke to my mechanic, and decided to go for Earl's non-CDV braided hose and get it fitted at the same time as the fluids change next week. Obviously he's gonna check the cylinders for leaks to (hopefully) rule that out first.

As I understand it, you can retro-fit the hose with or without CDV, depending on your preference.
I don't dump the clutch very often, so I bought the hose without CDV, which is the one with the kink at one end:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0848223674

The ad quite clearly states that this fits all Z3 and Z3M models, except it says S52, not S50....so maybe you should give them a call.

Cheers.
A.

[Robert T]

S52 was a US-only engine, but it could just as well be a typo.

Cheers R.

[Gazza]

Earls is a US Company hence the blurb refers to S52

[Tilly]

Took RED out for a nice long crooze round the Riviera last Wednesday. The weather was glorious and temperatures were cooking, but unfortunately as the day went on, the car developed exactly these same gear selection troubles.
Engaging reverse, 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd was pretty much impossible.
Quite embarrassing pulling away from stationary on to a roundabout in 3rd gear!

I've been planning on the Earl's braided hose upgrade for some tme, so I read up on the problem on this forum and spoke to my mechanic, and decided to go for Earl's non-CDV braided hose and get it fitted at the same time as the fluids change next week. Obviously he's gonna check the cylinders for leaks to (hopefully) rule that out first.

As I understand it, you can retro-fit the hose with or without CDV, depending on your preference.
I don't dump the clutch very often, so I bought the hose without CDV, which is the one with the kink at one end:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0848223674

The ad quite clearly states that this fits all Z3 and Z3M models, except it says S52, not S50....so maybe you should give them a call.



Cheers.
A.

I am having exactly the same problem.When cold no issues. When hot or if just stopped after a run for a few minutes the gears, all of them, are very difficult to engage. It has been very noticable in this hot weather. A month ago there was much less of a problem. Had the garage check the clutch and gear linkage when doing the inspection II and they could find no problems. However, the car has to be really warm and a brief road test for ten minutes would not be enough. The car is booked back into the garage next week to have the accumulator valves replaced so I will ask them to investigate again.

[OldskoolRS]

I may be wrong, but I understood that if you have an issue when the engine/gearbox is hot, then it could well be the flexible pipe becoming soft with the heat and balooning which means the clutch doesn't get fully disengaged.

[swamper]

^^^^ thats a fair point !

do the ones with the problems have the braided hose ?

[Tilly]

I may be wrong, but I understood that if you have an issue when the engine/gearbox is hot, then it could well be the flexible pipe becoming soft with the heat and balooning which means the clutch doesn't get fully disengaged.

Nice suggestion. I'll get the garage to check and if not replace the hose with a braided one.

[dwm]

Your problem isn't the clutch, it's the shift pins. Not difficult to replace, except that the transmission has to come out to do it. You also need a few special tools to drive in the replacements.

There was a service bulletin issued for this problem way back when. More info on one of my web pages:

M roadster transmission shift pins

While you're in there, I'd also do the locking pins for 5th and reverse just as I did, since there's another service bulletin for that problem.

Daniel

[OldskoolRS]

I see there are a few special tools required for this job, are they available to buy at all? Or are there more detailed drawings of them anywhere? My change is much better since bleeding the clutch and changing the 'box oil, but longer term I could see me doing this and I hate to pay for work that I can otherwise do myself.

[dwm]

The drifts and the slide hammer were available from BMW when I did the work, I'm not sure they still are. Someone replicated them for less money here in the U.S., but I'd have to dig up the posts from bimmerforums and bimmerfest. I gave the BMW tools to a friend, and I think he's the one that gave out the measurements. I will ask him if he kept the measurements. I'm sure he still has the tools.

[OldskoolRS]

Thanks DWM that would be useful, perhaps it could be put into the knowledgebase section if you can find the measurements.

[Alfie]

Just collected RED from my trusty mechanic and the drive home was a delightful 3/4-hour rip through some of West Dorset's finest tarmac....

She now has the Earl's braided non-CDV clutch hose fitted and a fresh portion of BMW's clutch and brake fluid. The master and slave cylinders were thoroughly checked and found to be ok. The old rubber hose was visually ok, but cold, so impossible to say how it was behaving when hot.

I need to take the car out for a long hot day of hard driving to make sure that the clutch problem has definitely been fixed, but tonight, the clutch was lighter and more accurate, the gear changes were super slick and much less notchy, and the newly-scrubbed tyres are just frekkin awesome! I don't think the car has ever felt this good! (Or maybe I'm just so happy to have her back on top form?)

I'll update this tread if I find that the problem returns when the car is thoroughly hot.

So... before you strip out your gearbox, try spending £24 on an Earl's braided hose and a tenner on some fresh fluid to see if that fixes your gear selection troubles...

A.

[OldskoolRS]

Is the Earl's braided hose the same part as I'd need for a 3.0 Z3? I find the CDV is annoying me at times. Is there a link for the hose too?

[c_w]

Even cold the standard clutch hose balloons when the clutch pedal is pressed down. No need to buy a braided hose though, you can buy a BMW E21 (circa 1980 3-Series) front brake hose off ebay for about £10 which will do the job and is many times stiffer than the clutch system requires.

That plus a good slave bleed and gearbox oil change to AMSOIL MTF and the shift should be better than new. I have no selection issues with my setup and I've done a few hot trackdays where oil temp is over 125c.

[Gazza]

Is the Earl's braided hose the same part as I'd need for a 3.0 Z3? I find the CDV is annoying me at times. Is there a link for the hose too?

Much easier to call Earls

http://www.earls.co.uk/index.php

[hotrod]

Had my Earls clutch line fitted and changed gearbox oil but still difficult to engage first gear .
This only happens at standstill ,if im coasting up to a junction while still moving it will go into first quite easily
Any thoughts guys

Dave

[Gazza]

I have a similar thing with the Corvette, I select 2nd gear before going to 1st, goes straight in every time

[Alfie]

RED had her first serious run out last weekend since having the Earl's braided hose fitted and clutch fluid changed.

I'm happy to say that the gear selection problems have now been completely fixed.



A.

[CaptainQ]

Yep, fitted an Earls pipe to mine and hey presto, easy gear changes. Enjoy the rest of summer!!

[Mike Fishwick]

A common cause of this problem is clutch drag. Given that the clutch hydraulic system is free of air, this can be caused by an accumulation of rust on the steel clutch surfaces, and the friction plate absorbing moisture and swelling slightly. My 2.8 suffers from this if it has not been used for a couple of weeks in rainy conditions, the usual remedy being to engage third gear before first when stationary.

The answer is simply to get out and use the car, particularly town driving, where the clutch is slipped more than on long runs. This heats up the friction plate, driving out any moisture, and abrades the rust from the steel plates. A thousand miles will make quite a difference.

As so many MR owners seldom use their cars in winter it is no wonder that lots of people experience this problem - but in most cases its cause is a simple one, and does not require replacement of what in English are the detent plungers.

[Alfie]

...this can be caused by an accumulation of rust on the steel clutch surfaces, and the friction plate absorbing moisture and swelling slightly.

Although RED was fresh out of a 4 month rest, your suggestion doesn't follow for my symptoms Mike. I got the gear change trouble not from cold, but only as the car became thoroughly warm after a few hours mixed driving on a very hot day.
And if moisture and rust were the cause, how come the replacement hose and fresh fluid instantly fixed the problem?

...the usual remedy being to engage third gear before first when stationary.

Nope. Tried that. Definitely didn't work for me.

...does not require replacement of what in English are the detent plungers.

Do you mean the (US) 'shift pins' as mentioned by dwm above? Yeah, seems like a huge job only to be taken on after eliminating all the other possibilities.

A.

[hotrod]

I was thinking that my problems were due to lack of use ,my car has only done 4500 miles in the last 9years and only hundreds in the last couple of years.
It will go into first after you select another gear.
Oddly will easily slip into first if im coasting up to a junction, but when at a standstill its sticky
The earls clutch hose has made an improvement to the clutch action
Hopefully a bit of use may help thanks Mike

[Mike Fishwick]

I did say 'Given that the clutch hydraulic system is free of air' as clutch drag is a common symptom of an unbled clutch, which as with a rusty clutch, will produce the same symptoms. In the case of air in the hydraulic system. however, it can be very apparent when hot, as any air will expand and produce a larger loss of movement in the slave cylinder.

Again, clutch drag will be more noticable when the car is at rest, rather than when moving slowly.

If the gear will not engage at rest, try keeping pressure on the lever, with the clutch disengaged, while the engine is turned off - if it then slips into gear, the cause is clutch drag, caused by air in the hydraulic system, rust on the plates, or possibly a worn out clutch.

[HarveyT]

My experiences on the subject;

I bought my T reg M Roadster in June with 11,000 miles on the clock. Initially the gear selection was fine but I noticed that it was becoming more difficult to select any gear when stationary, (hot or cold). It got to the stage when I could only select first when cruising to a stand still.

I changed the rubber section of clutch hose for braided and bled the system but this made no difference apart from transmitting engine vibration through the car at high revs.

I contacted Munich Legends who had supplied the car and they were very keen to have the car back to rectify the issue. I forwarded the service notes posted by dwm in this post and returned the car. Munich Legends confirmed the issue and ordered the later catch pins as detailed in the service note. The pins arrived from Germany and were fitted along with the input splines checked for friction, (none found).

The car was returned and so far so good - happy days

[hotrod]

Have spoken to Munich legends today and they are taking my car in next week as ive tried all the bleeding/hose replacement and oil change it has exactly the same symtoms as your car so i thought they may know how long it will all take and whats involved been quoted around £ 350 to sort the pins and clean any splines that may have surface rust not to bad.

[hotrod]

Got my car back today new shift pins and a clean of all splines etc and all is good

[Gazza]

Worth the money then