Disaster - Advice needed

For the M Powered Z3 derivatives
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Grazza
Joined: Wed 24 Sep, 2014 10:38
Posts: 44

  M roadster S50

Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Grazza »

Spun my Z3M into a ditch last weekend - gutted! Too depressed to go into detail, was not going very fast, not pushing hard just one of those things.

First impressions not too much damage but clipped a lamp post and estimate has come back at circa £10k and insurance co want to write it off - Cat C.

They have given me the following options
Accept settlement payment - still to be determined
Get another quote using second hand parts
Accept settlement minus salvage value (as yet not specified)

It's a 1998 Estoril Blue, 69k miles, in great condition (or it was) with Simota air filter, SS Exhaust, aftermarket speaker system, xenon headlights, strut bar - BMW specialist I took it to recently said it was one of the smoothest sounding he had heard (if that means anything!). I paid £8k, spent ages looking and feeling pretty despondent about it.

Not been through this before as first accident I have ever had so trying to understand what makes the most sense. What do you guys think, is it worth trying to buy it back and try and do the work myself or do I just take the money and start again?

Estimate details attached - If you double click image think it takes you through to all estimate details on photbucket

Image
Last edited by Grazza on Fri 12 Dec, 2014 22:05, edited 2 times in total.
chill4x4saph
Joined: Sun 26 Jan, 2014 09:56
Posts: 146

  M roadster S54

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by chill4x4saph »

cant load your picture, but depending on how bad id be tempted to repair it myself then it doesn't get a written off history marker against it.

but that's very dependant on how bad it is and what the insurance are offering.
Tony g
Joined: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 18:29
Posts: 12

  blank

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Tony g »

No advice I'm afraid but just to say I'm gutted for you mate. I'm in Oxfordshire too and have identical car to you. If you need a hand with anything or a beer to talk over your options just send me a pm. Tony
Grazza
Joined: Wed 24 Sep, 2014 10:38
Posts: 44

  M roadster S50

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Grazza »

Thanks for your responses, think I have fixed the link now. Regards
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by therealdb1 »

It's a bit difficult to tell from the photos what warrants £10k of damage. My experience of these repairers is that the first question they ask is whether or not it is an insurance job. Answer "yes" and the quote shall be so ridiculous it will write off virtually any car. Get a couple of quotes from other establishments and tell them that you are paying from your own pocket and you may be surprised how many thousands are wiped from the bill (unless of course you have trashed expensive parts that cannot be seen!).
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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by pingu »

Firstly, sorry to hear about your problems, but...

I'm struggling to see anything wrong with it that couldn't be sorted with a bucket of water and a sponge. This can either mean that there is very little wrong with it, or that the structure of the car has been subtly damaged. Subtle damage can be VERY difficult for the amateur to fix.

Have you any details of the damage?

Re what to do with the car. It depends on how handy YOU are with the spanners.

a) If you will need to pay for repairs, you will need to do the maths, but I think the best option would be to take as much cash as you can and let them get rid of the car.
b) If you are handy with the spanners AND it's repairable for minimal spares cost, tell them that it's OK and you'll deal with it yourself, but only if they don't cat C the car. If they Cat C the car, it's value as a future px will be about 60% of an uncategorised car. If the car is a "keeper" and they Cat C it, you can do the same, but you will only be able to insure it for about 50% of it's true value.
c) If you are handy with the spanners and there is a high spares bill, look at the salvage value of the good bits and do the maths. There's a lot of value in a salvage M, but you'll have the problem of storing and selling the bits.


[edit] I've taken a proper look at the photos and it's difficult to tell what the damage is. IF the windscreen frame is damaged (easy to test by opening the roof - if you can't close it = kapput), the car should be Cat B/C. The image of the wheel looks like there may be suspension damage, but it's hard to tell from the image. Scratches to the rear bumper, filler cap, door and mirror would be easy to fix, and may even polish out.[/edit]
Pingu
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Gazza
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 20:58
Posts: 9521

  M roadster S54
Location: Romford Essex

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Gazza »

I would suggest the option to use self repair/secondhand parts, my friend did this and the accident was not registered. OBVIOUSLY CHECK WITH YOUR INSURER.
You will then have the option to choose your own repairer.


Image

Some of the items on the list arent strictly neccessary.


New headlamp ? secondhand units are available
Bonnet ? looks an easy repair
New wheel ? only if buckled.
Tyres ? inspection required.
Steering rack exchange ? possible but easily diagnosed
Etc etc etc
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

Z3 S54 M roadster Image, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
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siwilson
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 09:54
Posts: 790

  M roadster S54
Location: Horley

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by siwilson »

First off is to see what the offer is. If you paid £8k and they offer you anything over £7k then take it and look for another. There are plenty out there. Maybe make the acceptance condition on you getting some of the aftermarket bits back? (Assuming you declared then to begin with). Key rule is NEVER starting talking about bits now that the Insurance were not previously aware of. Could screw your entire claim.

Next is to go with second hand or OEM manufacturer parts. The car is over 15 years old so it really won't make a difference to the quality after repair. The strut and steering arms for example can be bought from ECP for half what BMW want. The key thing is to avoid the Cat C whatever the cost. If it's a cat C then walk away and look for another.

Good luck and hope it end up how you want it.
2001 M roadster S54 Laguna Seca Blue
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Mike123
Joined: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 14:34
Posts: 323

  M roadster S50
Location: Leamington Spa

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Mike123 »

Firstly, having had a couple of similar situations in the past, with cars that I loved, I know exactly how you feel. One was a complete write off - a friend borrowed the car and managed a head-on, the other was more like your situation - a close call financially. I decided to get the car repaired because I'd had the car for some time, very professionally, rejigged, all new parts, cost a lot of money. Big mistake. The car was not the same, I fell out of love with it, and let it go.

I've had the Z3M for 10 years now, and it's a part of me, but in the same circumstances I would look to replace it rather than repair. The real question is whether you would trust it, especially after your recent experience.

The last thing you need at this time is a comment on the tyres, but I feel so strongly about them on the Z3M, and I note the different tyres front and back. With a car that likes to slide the more balance you can achieve the better. It may not have been a factor, but I wouldn't take the risk. I can't see what make of tyres, but I've been delighted with Falken 453s, which are great value for money. I may have just been lucky, but after 80k hard driving miles in all conditions I've never had a slide that wasn't either expected or induced - I love the car's handling, and won't swap it until I'm too old to get in and out (not far off now!) :(

Hope you get it all sorted out soon.
Grazza
Joined: Wed 24 Sep, 2014 10:38
Posts: 44

  M roadster S50

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Grazza »

Thanks to everyone for their kind words.

Having spoken to the assessor the damage is to the steering rack and suspension but he did say there is always the chance they could find something else as they do the work. Don't think the windscreen frame is damaged, had the roof down when I crashed and they seem to have put it up ok. Slight concern is glove compartment won't close but not been able to look into what the cause might be. Looking at the report they do seem to be going to town to remove and repair things which look to me like they could just polish out. I am going to see if I can get someone else to quote.

I was very careful to declare all of the modifications when I took out the insurance (even to the point of getting them to send me an email listing them as they did not appear on the policy) so hopefully will be ok. Not had an offer yet so not sure how they are going to be but everywhere you turn there are horror stories about insurance co.s so preparing for a battle.

Tyres are all Eagle F1's I think the difference is the backs are asymmetric and fronts are not.
Tilly
Joined: Wed 26 May, 2004 19:45
Posts: 439

  M roadster S50
Location: Sussex

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Tilly »

I'm having a similar experience with the renovation of my car. My simple advice is work with a reputable garage and discuss what needs doing, whether you want OEM new or second hand parts and the time frame you need to have the work carried out. These cars are not common and they will appreciate in price. I would avoid it being listed as a cat C car for its future value.
Unfortunately it will cost and it will not be cheap. However, you know the car and it can be repaired it just depends on how much you want this car back or do you just want another M. For me if I could find the necessary money I would get it repaired.
peter2b
Joined: Sat 01 Nov, 2014 18:47
Posts: 963

  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: cheshire

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by peter2b »

i had the same in my mondeo girl went into the back and pushed the tow bar cover ( a dogs head) over into the bumper making a hole, insurers took it away for repair and gave me a loan car, 4 days later had a letter saying it was scraped due to it being beyond economic repair cat C, the car is 10 years old (cost me £480 off fleebay) said repairs would be £780 they offered me the car back as scrap for £120 but put its value at £650 no brainer took the cash plus the tow away firm put ratchet straps over it marking the roof and bonnet got another £150 , still got the hole in the bumper covered with gaffer tape , as said before 2nd hand parts can be found on ebay etc there are some folk doing kobra conversions and are selling all the bolt on bits try piston heads
peter2b
Grazza
Joined: Wed 24 Sep, 2014 10:38
Posts: 44

  M roadster S50

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Grazza »

So insurance co have finally come back and offered £4910 saying this is based on retail value from glasses guide! Problem is when you look at these guides this is the sort of value they say - which is nuts given what they actually sell for.

Problem is there aren't many up for sale at the moment so difficult to show that market is different. I have expressed my unhappiness which the guy said he was expecting and they will get the next dept in the chain to see if they can increase on Monday. Following that its accept or go to Financial Ombudsman - which I have told them I will do.

Anyone got any advice?
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Davejue1
Joined: Sun 22 Sep, 2013 07:25
Posts: 1249

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Mansfield

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Davejue1 »

They will give you 3 offers if you push hard. They get paid a higher commission the less they get you to accept. Keep fighting and fight hard! :)
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"Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional!"
Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2136

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Del »

Spent a large part of my career involved in "disputes" and the threat to go to the Financial Ombudsman is a good ploy if the situation is deadlocked without agreement (not sure if you've reached this yet) - it will cost the insurance company a fee of around £750 plus a considerable amount of time. However, it can't just be an "empty/vexatious threat", you will need to collect some good evidence showing that the reasonable replacement cost of the car is higher than the offer that has been made. I would suggest collecting several examples from somewhere like Auto-trader/Pistonheads and have a counter argument ready for the possible counter that you are illustrating "asking" prices rather than actual, final "selling" prices. :)
Grazza
Joined: Wed 24 Sep, 2014 10:38
Posts: 44

  M roadster S50

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Grazza »

Del

Thanks for the advice and the insight.

Certainly not looking to make empty or vexatious threats and quite prepared to follow through. Given their starting point I just don't see them increasing their offer to anything like a sensible price. I have an AA HPI check that I did when I bought the car which said it was worth £9k retail in avarage condition and the car was cartainly better than average. I understand your comments around collecting examples, the problem is that there are very few up for sale at the moment. I have tried to contact some of the dealers that have sold examples recently but they are not prepared to disclose actual sale prices.
Joycey
Joined: Mon 11 Jul, 2011 22:15
Posts: 290

  M roadster S52
Location: Basingstoke

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Joycey »

I'm sorry to hear about your accident mate. But from what i can see i wouldn't class this as a write off. The way i would tackle this is not buying everything brand new as described.

I would source a new bumper of course along with light unit etc.

But other things you will be able to source from people breaking M's It may take you 6 months or so but you could do it for a fraction of that price.

Some of the bodywork marks look like they will come out with some professional help. Where are you located i would love to come along and have closer look?

Lee
Grazza
Joined: Wed 24 Sep, 2014 10:38
Posts: 44

  M roadster S50

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Grazza »

Lee,

I agree I think it could be fixed for much less. I have another garage lined up who are prepared to take a more make do and mend approach but at the moment the insurance co will only pay up to £4k costs (based on their valuation) which I do not think will be enough. I am also concerned that they have declared it as a write off and they have taken so long to provvide a valuation I am worried they will not be able to reinstate it. With hindsight best thing to have done would have been not to tell the insurance co and just fix it myself! You would be welcome to come and have a look (I'm to the west of Oxford) but it is in a garage.
Joycey
Joined: Mon 11 Jul, 2011 22:15
Posts: 290

  M roadster S52
Location: Basingstoke

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by Joycey »

Not to far from me, im working in abingdon at the moment. It would be a shame to write a car off with such minor damage.

Lee
peter2b
Joined: Sat 01 Nov, 2014 18:47
Posts: 963

  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: cheshire

Re: Disaster - Advice needed

Post by peter2b »

Have a look on the web for parts, I have a Cat c front damage, I needed 2head lights bumper support, bonnet , radiator ,slam pannel cost so far lights 45. each, bumper support 35, bonnet 165, radiator 45,slam panel 65 ,3cans of spray paint 2psck of plastic rivits and some 2pack plastic weld for a cracked bumper cover
Peter2b
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