"Z4M possible" says head of BMW's M division

Zmeagol · Post by **Zmeagol** » Sun 21 Mar, 2004 21:37

After a couple of years of BMW saying, "It's not in our product plans," Ulrich Bruhnke, managing director of BMW's M division is reported as saying that due to the amount of interest shown there is a possibility that a Z4M will be built. For details see the Auto Motor und Sport report at http://www.automotorundsport.de/d/53938

Rough notes: Bruhnke wants to grow the number of M-model shipments from the current 20,000 units pa. Wants to consider M versions of all models. Numerous customer enquiries about an M version of the Z4. The engine from the already-announced M5 will be used in M6 coupe and cabriolet models.

No plans for M versions of X3 or X5. At upper end Bruhnke sees a supersports car. No plans for M5 touring (don't understand why). Wants to concentrate on lightweight construction with highly-tuned normally aspirated engines rather than turno or supercharger.

See viewtopic.php?t=34 for earlier thoughts about possible engine for MZ4.

Tim

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Mon 22 Mar, 2004 08:07

Hhmmmm - I'd be fascinated to know how many existing Z3M owners are eagerly waiting for this model to be released, setting aside their possible aversion to the Z4s lines and looks, but drooling over possible performance and handling enhancements to their existing rides.....?

A toughie that one

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Mon 22 Mar, 2004 12:53

It's more of a .. well if they build a Z4M then I best have a look in case it's better.. which would just cap off the whole Z4-Z3 debate.

At the moment I can justify not bothering with the Z4 due to the power gap (even taking into account the AlpinaS) but if a Z4M was built and one came up in my rear view mirror...

I still don't like the look of the Z4 but I like to drive around in what I consider t be the fastest incarnation of the breed (Coupe/Z8 permitting)...

I expect the interest from Z3M owners is more curiosity rather than actual desire!

I know I have posted interest but more to confirm they are not going to, which I know is completely counterproductive

It would really have to be something special to warrant the outlay of losing money on the Z3M and buying another - especially given the £38K price tag on the S and you're getting perilously close to M3 cab territory.

I'm hoping by the time (if) it comes out that I can suitably distract myself with a Porsche.

Roelster · Post by **Roelster** » Mon 03 May, 2004 10:48

spoke to my dealer last week. Z4M will come! According to his info it will be next year arround the time BMW will make the new 3 series M aviable.
Q3-05

stu · Post by **stu** » Mon 03 May, 2004 11:30

Sold to the man from Yorkshire (so long as it's cheaper than a Z8)

Kind of don't like the life of the 6 cyl M motors at the moment

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Mon 03 May, 2004 11:35

Roeland wrote:spoke to my dealer last week..... According to his info......

Personally I wouldn't believe or trust a single word any dealer says on any subject.

Zmeagol · Post by **Zmeagol** » Mon 03 May, 2004 11:47

So that's late 2005 then (E90-based M3 is due late 2005, with M4 in spring 2006). I imagine the price will be around £44k

Tim

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue 04 May, 2004 15:16

Zmurf wrote:So that's late 2005 then (E90-based M3 is due late 2005, with M4 in spring 2006). I imagine the price will be around £44k

Tim

Just not worth 44K.. I'm sorry but I can source a good Porsche Turbo or 993 RS..

Roelster · Post by **Roelster** » Fri 07 May, 2004 18:54

How about this,

http://www.autovisie.nl/

(scoll down and look at artical under the new rover) Ok, it is dutch but the numbers are clear V8 400bhp!

http://www.hartge.nl/start.html for more data.

mroadster · Post by **mroadster** » Fri 07 May, 2004 19:20

You can't polish a turd.

MZ4 there might be, but it will still fundamentally look like a Z4

So, to answer a previous question - no, I wouldn't be interested in a MZ4 (from my personal perspective) as an M Roadster owner since a massive part of the appeal of the M Roadtser for me is the looks.

I also find it very difficult to believe that there will be a MZ4 since BMW sanctioned Alpinas production of their roadster with a manual 'box...

Just my thoughts...

Andy

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Sat 08 May, 2004 01:35

mroadster wrote:You can't polish a turd.

MZ4 there might be, but it will still fundamentally look like a Z4

So, to answer a previous question - no, I wouldn't be interested in a MZ4 (from my personal perspective) as an M Roadster owner since a massive part of the appeal of the M Roadtser for me is the looks.

I also find it very difficult to believe that there will be a MZ4 since BMW sanctioned Alpinas production of their roadster with a manual 'box...

Just my thoughts...

Andy

That was my thinking Andy but I reckon this was smokescreen so as to put off speculation about a ZM.. Launching a ZM could have damaged 3.0 sales while a bespoke Alpina edition sold through selected dealerships bears little pressure on BMW. BMW then have time to gauge sales and appetitite for an ultre-high performance version.. One thing is for sure and that is that they have to do a lot to the handling and road manners as current Z4s are being percieved as twitchy,, still steer on the rear axle and have shocking ride quality due to the run flats. For the price Beem would need to do something pretty outstanding in performance too hence the move up to a V8 which for me is the greatest shame but a V8 would help distinguish this car from Alpina's.. As to handling - BMW can't do another MCoupe.. that car was never a mktg exercise but rather a very serious attempt by M-Boffins to create an extremely rigid chassis - which Steve Soper confirmed - perhaps BeeMs stiffest road chassis ever.

On another note.. that Alpina Z4S posted 12 dead to 100 which is not far off MCoupe pace and whisker quicker than a stock MR..

In the end it'll come down to numbers.. if BMW can shift enough units at x cost for x price and x budget for R&D and production then they'll do it. If it's a V* I can't say I wont be tempted to hve a peak and therein I lay open my own hypocrisy in this matter..

By the way - I worked out what the Z4 looks like (Z4 owners look away now).. there was a strange sausage shaped character in the Willow of the Wisp with downward slanting eyes and bull sized nostrils.. urika!

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Sat 08 May, 2004 04:59

M Blur wrote:By the way - I worked out what the Z4 looks like (Z4 owners look away now).. there was a strange sausage shaped character in the Willow of the Wisp with downward slanting eyes and bull sized nostrils.. urika!

I rather think Hammond from TopGear was right. It's a Rhino (in grey anyway). Don't know if that's good or bad but I see why he said it...

Mines nearly ready but if they do build a V8 version at the face-lift, I'd be tempted.

Zmeagol · Post by **Zmeagol** » Sat 08 May, 2004 23:03

Biggest market for Z4 M would be USA. Schnitzer, Hamman and Alpina don't sell in the US. In fact the Alpina roadster currently is assembled in Germany.

PS: drove the Alpina Roadster earlier this week. Also drove the Z4 2.2i today (in the Lakes). Funny but the 2.2 impressed me more.

Tim

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Sun 09 May, 2004 13:13

Zmurf wrote:Funny but the 2.2 impressed me more.

Tim

Do tell.....?

I drove a late M Roadster before choosing the Z4 as replacement for my 2.8Z3. I was impressed by the power but not so the suspension compared to my Schnitzer stuff. Difficult to describe, it felt better than my 2.8 overall (power inc) but somehow dull.
However when I drove the manual 2.5 Z4 I was very happy with the power/feel relationship then went for the 3ltr manual.

I suspect had I not gone for the Z4 I'd have had a late Imola/Estoril M Roadster with the Schnitzer springs and exhaust etc but decided it was time for a 'new' car after 5 years of a Z3. It's going to be tough watching the Z3 being taken away this week though, it's been just so much fun and I have only good memories (the bad ones seem to pale).

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Mon 10 May, 2004 08:18

Jason wrote:
M Blur wrote:By the way - I worked out what the Z4 looks like (Z4 owners look away now).. there was a strange sausage shaped character in the Willow of the Wisp with downward slanting eyes and bull sized nostrils.. urika!
I rather think Hammond from TopGear was right. It's a Rhino (in grey anyway). Don't know if that's good or bad but I see why he said it...

Mines nearly ready but if they do build a V8 version at the face-lift, I'd be tempted.

Enjoy.. enjoy.. the best proportions I've seen of any roadster in the last 5 years.. just love that super long bonnet..

Larri · Post by **Larri** » Mon 10 May, 2004 19:48

M Blur wrote: One thing is for sure and that is that they have to do a lot to the handling and road manners as current Z4s are being percieved as twitchy,, still steer on the rear axle and have shocking ride quality due to the run flats.

Well Jonny....I'm unsure what sort of drivers would give that opinion of the Z4's handling..... Because a certain little bog standard entry level plastic fantastic 2.2 Z4 out handled just about every other car this Lakes weekend.......

Madeira Jon · Post by **Madeira Jon** » Mon 10 May, 2004 20:33

Because a certain little bog standard entry level plastic fantastic 2.2 Z4 out handled just about every other car this Lakes weekend.......

With the exception of course of a certain 4 seater Z! The driver was trying to get away from the smell of decaying sanwiches in the boot!

(US=trunk)

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue 11 May, 2004 08:46

Larri wrote:
M Blur wrote: One thing is for sure and that is that they have to do a lot to the handling and road manners as current Z4s are being percieved as twitchy,, still steer on the rear axle and have shocking ride quality due to the run flats.
Well Jonny....I'm unsure what sort of drivers would give that opinion of the Z4's handling..... Because a certain little bog standard entry level plastic fantastic 2.2 Z4 out handled just about every other car this Lakes weekend.......

Larri.. that opinion comes from the parts of the motoring press that I actually respect.. i.e. the ones who have driven vast numbers of performance cars. A Z4 was a 3l but interestingly EVOs long term car but it rode on the sports suspension and larger rims, which the journo suspected exacerbated the handling tendencies and made the rise overly-harsh, which leads to camber following and tramlining and generally becomes uopset very quickly on the rough stuff..

If you look at the geometry of the Z4 or Z3 for that fact then you will see that it's layout will often be susceptible to steering from the rear axle.. that can be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view..

but in comparison to other roadsters... VX, Elise, Boxster, new CLK... the Zeds are still some way behind in handling dynamics... but hey the handling can be easily improved by buying a quality suspension kit and having the suspension professional set up..

Larri.. if you were out driven by a 2.2 then may I propose that the answer lies in the driver not the car ...

Often a good driver can still run cirles around an average driver in a superior car... not that I suggest anything of the sort in this case..

Of course if the road was very twisty then the M would never be allowed to get into its stride and a 2.2 has almost as much low down pull as a 3.2 which needs revs.. and we know the Z4 is fron outset a better handling car than the M.. (Coupe aside)

I believe Spokey makes full use of his Z1.. and having seen his 7 series (

) exploits am fairly confident he could do similar in the Z4..

..

Glad to hear you guys had a good time.. hopefully I'll join you (if Larri lets me that is

)

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Tue 11 May, 2004 10:33

M Blur wrote: Larri.. if you were out driven by a 2.2 then may I propose that the answer lies in the driver not the car ...

But you miss the point Jon - WE were driving the 2.2 Z4.....

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue 11 May, 2004 10:53

Giles wrote:
M Blur wrote: Larri.. if you were out driven by a 2.2 then may I propose that the answer lies in the driver not the car ...
But you miss the point Jon - WE were driving the 2.2 Z4.....

Ahh.. Oh well then.. I trust there wasn't any room to deploy the M's power

.. know one said the M was 'easy' to drive (especially the pre-01 cars) but therein lies the pleasure.. for me any road

I've heard the 2.2 Z4 doesn't feel much slower than the 2.5 until you start to wind it up.. and offers great value.. it's smaller wheels & softer suspension are also more forgiving on B-roads. Often the only time you really get to appreciate the M's power is on track and the rate of knots it can gather out of a bend is quite remarkable but it's not and never has been a quick point-to-point car unless the driver is exceptional.. eh Col/Franc' ... the Z4 will undoubtedly be a more neutral handling car and more forgiven and therefore easier to hustle.. not unlike the old Z1 which carries far less weight into those bends..

which I've heard handles like a dream..

I am so tempted at the thought of a 3.2 Z1... widen the track.. new gearbox and diff.. big brakes.. hmm

not sure how I'd get it to fit or customise the grp for that matter..

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Tue 11 May, 2004 11:56

mroadster wrote:You can't polish a turd.

Please see this thread for pursuance of this theme. viewtopic.php?t=1836

(It also includes a Moderators explanation as to why this comment has not been edited/deleted

)

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue 11 May, 2004 12:15

Good fellow - you pulled the plug.. no need for unpleasantries amongst fellow Zee owners.. given my soap box sermon about 'snobbery'..

I should be the first one to stop it between ZM and Z4s...

Best

Zmeagol · Post by **Zmeagol** » Thu 27 May, 2004 22:56

Reported on Bimmerfest

Living in Greenville has its BMW surprises. One of which is the ability to randomly see new colors that BMW is testing on Z4's. These cars are typically seen while being driven by a plant associate, manager, or an executive. Saturday I saw a Phoenix Yellow Z4 emerging out of an automated car wash. I thought my eyes might be fooling me, so I turned around, took off the sunglasses, and sure enough, there it was being wiped down by the crew at the end of the car wash.

The first Phoenix Yellow I saw was on a factory Z3 when it was being tested for the M Roadster. Does that mean...? You guess.

Tim

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Sat 11 Sep, 2004 10:54

I notice there's an interesting letter from Jeff Haywood (Chairman BMWCC) in the current edition of BMW Car mag that seems to suggest that arrival of the Z4M is now more a case of when, not if....

Zmeagol · Post by **Zmeagol** » Sun 12 Sep, 2004 23:16

There's definitely a need for more power in the Z4, especially in the lucrative American market where the German tuners have no penetration. How will BMW counter the 2005 Porsche Boxster, especially if the rumoured 300 bhp version is launched?

I waver between two schools of thought. On the one hand BMW could come out with a flagship 'Roadster M' to help fill the gap left by the Z8. Something with a 4-litre V8 engine would be nice. Probably 2006/07 rather than sooner so as to minimise the upset to those Z8 owners who paid megabucks for the equivalent power.

The other alternative is a power-hike within the Z4 range by doing a turbo version of the new 3-litre. That wouldn't be an 'M' car but would sell very well in the US.

The option I don't see is the middle line of bringing out something based on the S54 engine.

Tim

Steve Z4 · Post by **Steve Z4** » Tue 14 Sep, 2004 21:49

Been waiting for the Z4M myself ( hoping for a V8 motor circa 380 BHP) but nearly given up

, looking at Forced induction as a last resort!

'MC' MarkC · Post by **'MC' MarkC** » Wed 15 Sep, 2004 07:17

Zmeagol wrote:The other alternative is a power-hike within the Z4 range by doing a turbo version of the new 3-litre.
Tim

There was an interview in September's BMW Car magazine with the head of BM's 'M' Division, I think he was quoted as saying that there were no plans at all for turbos.

zroadster.net

"Z4M possible" says head of BMW's M division

"Z4M possible" says head of BMW's M division

V10 5 litre soundtrack?