Flooding Damage - Help!

[Dur747]

My Z4 (2.5, Year 2003, approx 78000miles) got stuck in flooded water for about an hour - level was halfway up the tyres. Engine cut out, breakdown service pushed it out into the unflooded road but asked me to try various things to get the engine started, but couldn't and I was towed to a franchised BMW dealer garage.

Anyway, the insurance company have agreed to cover the cost of a 'reconditioned engine' that needs to be put in (excess £350 which I have to pay). In the process of 'stripping' the car, the garage engineers have discovered other faults that they believe are to due to wear and tear, not flood damage (that is what they are saying - and the insurance company won't cover these things - the car was working completely fine and has been regularly serviced at all the intervals:

- all brake pads are worn out, cost ~£550
- 'seized clutch' needs replacing ~£185
- the 'front wishbone rear bushes' are leaking ~£270
- rear tyres nearly worn beyond legal min. ~ £190 x 2

So nearly £1300 + £350 excess, which I will have to pay out of my own pocket.

Unfortunately, this is all complete jargon to me, and I don't have a clue whether the above things are to be expected as 'wear and tear' for a car this age, or whether the problems could have been caused by the flood damage (apart from tyres).

I think the car's value is about £8000-10k, and they said the reconditioned engine costs approx £6000. My concern is that these other problems are not being covered by the insurance company because they would effectively then have to write the car off, which will have taken a lot of work away for the garage...so is it in the garage's interests to say that the above problems are 'wear and tear' and not related to flood damage?

Very unsure, and a little clueless about this....they reckon while the car is stripped down, it is to my benefit because these problems can be sorted out without the additional labour charges should these problems have become symptomatic later on......

Any ideas anyone?? Do I just have to accept this and take the hit?

[Zed Carer]

Hi Dur747 - sorry to hear about your experience and as far as your list goes IMO:

- all brake pads are worn out, cost ~£550 If these are actually worn out then it would probably be classed as normal wear & tear. You could check the handbook to see if the Z4 has a pad wear warning light.
- 'seized clutch' needs replacing ~£185 Not heard of this before
- the 'front wishbone rear bushes' are leaking ~£270 Not heard of this before
- rear tyres nearly worn beyond legal min. ~ £190 x 2 This should be an easy one to check. When was it last MoT'd? If they were near the limit then the tester should have noted an Advisory

When Mrs ZC bought her Z4 we were warned about flood damage as quite a few Z4's had been written with water damage to the electronics.

Hope that you get it sorted without too much hassle

[Jonttt]

I think your being "done over" good style

- all brake pads are worn out, cost ~£550 . If they are then that would be wear and tear but any garage can do this for your for a lot less (even kwik fit ) Plus having the engine out makes no difference to cost of replacing these


- 'seized clutch' needs replacing ~£185 . Surely if the clutch was seized then you would not have been able to drive the car and change gears Therefore if it is seized it must be flood damage. Note it would be a lot cheaper to fit this as the engine is out anyway (ie gearbox disconnected).


- the 'front wishbone rear bushes' are leaking ~£270. This would be wear and tear but again not related to engine out so get it checked and done elsewhere for a fraction of the cost.


- rear tyres nearly worn beyond legal min. ~ £190 x 2. Yet again wear and tear and nothing to do with engine out so get them checked/replaced elsewhere.

I would really question the clutch, if it is seized then question how the car could have been driven pre flood like that ?

The other items are typical main dealer rip off items. Tell them thank you very much for bringing them to y attention but I'll get them sorted out myself later.

[pingu]

- all brake pads are worn out, cost ~£550 ---- supply your own pads, a quick google shows them at around £20 for front set and £25 for rear set

- 'seized clutch' needs replacing ~£185 ----- £185 seems a good price (google = £225 approx), but insist on being given the old one. I strongly suspect that the seized clutch would be a result of the flood.

- the 'front wishbone rear bushes' are leaking ~£270 ----- bushes don't leak!!! We need confirmation of what is meant

- rear tyres nearly worn beyond legal min. ~ £190 x 2 ----- very easy to confirm. Near the legal minimum is not illegal, so do not need to be replaced. Check the tyres to confirm legality.

http://www.etyres.co.uk/uk-tyre-law

important bit is 1.6mm across the middle 75% of the tyre.

If they need replaced, take the rims away and get them yourself. I use this website for my tyres...

http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/tyre-search.asp

[Dur747]

Thanks for the input guys, I've decided to just get on with getting the clutch replaced because it has done over 80000 and told them to sort out the rear bushes too. I'll get the brake pads and tyres done elsewhere and hopefully cheaper.

It has been nearly 3 weeks now since the incident and was about to get car back today. On the test drive they have heard some 'noise' and noticed the 'wheel ball bearings' are damaged and will cost £550 or so to replace. Now, initially they said this may have been caused by the flooded water, but they have discussed with insurance company, who (without re-inspecting it) say that because it is a 'sealed unit' it can't have been caused by the flooded water and so they won't cover the cost.

I am banging my head against a brick wall. Do I need to get an independent assessor or something??? There was no noise at all before the incident occurred, the car was driving along fine!

[johnjo]

Seems strange that the insurance company are bothering to have it fixed if the engine cost is 6K and the cars value is 8-10K usually if the repair is getting on towards the value of the car it is written off. I would have an indipendant check done, with water damage all sorts of problems can occur.

[Dur747]

Thanks for that - do you have any recommended independent inspectors for this kind of thing? Any ideas how much something like that would cost?

[johnjo]

Not sure but it would be worth talking to someone like the AA. They have independant engineers that check cars over before purchase not sure about insurance claims. If I was you I would ring your insurance company and tell them you want an independant inspection it might make them look at things in a different light. Failing that if you have legal assistance on your policy start the ball rolloing.

[Gazza]

I agree with Jontt, you are being had over.

You can get your wheel bearing checked by any tyre dealer. Wheel bearings are sealed and not affected by water.

Go elsewhere

[Dur747]

OK Guys, thanks a lot for all the advice!

[woofa z 3]

Sound like you have been well tucked, whats the name of the garage so as we can steer clear of it. Hard luck pal

[gookah]

Where does water get into an engine, that oil does not leak out of?

[johnwayne]

Water is drawn into the air intake and through manifold and into the combustion chamber. As the pistons approach TDC the water is pushed upwards and as this is not compressable the engine "Hydraulics" and exerts extreme pressure to internal components-noticeably con-rods. This in turn makes the engine unable to rotate causig further damage to crank etc.

[gookah]

the air intake and inlet manifold are at the top of the engine, just how deep was the water?

[PVR]

Probably the wave of hitting the water soaked it all.

[Dur747]

just how deep was the water?

it was upto a level halfway up the tyres....


The insurance company finally agreed to pay for a reconditioned engine and the ball bearings, but it has taken around 7 weeks to get these two things sorted! I ended up paying for the new clutch and leaking bushes - including excess, at total of around £850!

I also got an MOT done at the garage which it passed.

A query - how long should the new parts they have put in, be guaranteed for? I'm particularly worried about the reconditioned engine - do I have any way of knowing whether it is going to last much time at all, in which case would it have been better to have had the car written off?! The garage pushed for putting the engine in obviously because it brought them some work and hefty fees...it's just playing at the back of my mind.

Secondly, the faulty headlamp indicator has come on and the passenger side Xenon headlamp is not working. Someone please reassure me that this is simply a case of the headlamp bulb needing replacing and it is not something else that might have been caused by flood water?

Does anyone know how much a replacement bulb and fitting one costs?

Thanks for all your advice!

[Dur747]

As I said, passenger side xenon light has stopped working.

Dealer said over the phone that the light will just need replacing at approx £200 including fitting!!

Being wary, I took it to a local independent garage to get the driver light swapped over, to see whether it is actually the bulb/ballister or something else...the passenger side xenon/ballister was swapped over to the driver side and it worked perfectly, and the driver swapped over to the passenger and it didn't work....suggesting it is something else...but what else??

Does anyone have any ideas what else could cause the problem for one Xenon to stop working (the inner halogen lamp closer to the grille is working fine)? And could this be anything to do with the flooded water damage....if it could be, I'll take it back to the main dealer and push for insurance to cover it (which will be a struggle). If not I would rather just get the whole thing sorted out by a reputable independent and pay for it myself...but no idea what the potential financial damage could be?

[Robert T]

Can't help much with your problem, but it does sound like water may have got into the high voltage electrics.

Just thought I'd point out that it is your ballast that may be at fault, as a ballista is a rather large catapult.

Good luck with getting it sorted.

Cheers R.

[groove65]

+1 on what Robert said

flood damage and electrics = not a happy combo

IMO when this sort of thing happens various elements start to malfunction after as time goes by. i would strongly recommend independent survey of all systems - you may well find they end up writing off the car then as it would be too expensive to replace the loom etc

if the garage turns out to be dodgy then take them to small claims court and get trading standards involved

[Dur747]

thanks, so depressing...i've had the car for a couple of weeks now...im sure they will just turn round and say, it was fine when it left the garage, and so the insurers will wash their hands off it too....
...plus i dont even know how long this reconditioned engine will last....surely they should have just offered me the choice of writing off teh car (which would have been more expensive for them) but now i might be left with a lame duck thats going to fall apart over time!

[Dur747]

As an update, the whole Xenon headlight unit needed to be replaced and billed for £1200, there was evidence that flood water was still pooled within the ignition box for the xenon filament?? - anyway, I ensured the insurance company agreed to pay for it, and it all seems to be working fine for now...

Not sure whether it is still worth getting the whole car checked over to see if there is a prob lurking anywhere else, but it has been nearly 3 months now and nothing else has given any problems...touch wood....apart from the bumper which is flood water unrelated and I will post ina new thread elsewhere...

[t-tony]

Dur747 sorry to tell you suspension bushes can leak, certain types of bushes are oil filled and can rupture and leak the oil out Even so I cant see how being driven into water,espsecially only that deep,could cause them to leak. All the other items are wear and tear really.The cost of a clutch at £185 would only involve the cost of parts as the engine is already out of the car,if it's the original it is probably ready for replacement anyway so that would be a bargain in my eyes.Get someone you know who knows about cars to go with you and check the parts they want to replace,otherwise tell them thanks but no thanks and do them when they NEED doing.