Clarkson

[Robin]

I wish the police would start to nab road hogs sat in the outside lane. I feel the same way as Giles. They make me livid & there seem to be more & more of them. Don't they teach the highway code in driving lessons anymore.
It's more often than not MPV's or off roaders.
Speaking of which did anyone see the Top Gear revue of the X3. Rubbish handling, rubbish off road ability & crap interior finish !
Why would anyone buy one instead of a 3 or 5 series ?
I drove a Landcruiser in Australia this year. There is only one reason to drive vehicles like it that are so boring on the road & that is to drive them off road so why do people buy them purely for road use ?
I digress.

[spokey]

Speaking of which did anyone see the Top Gear revue of the X3. Rubbish handling, rubbish off road ability & crap interior finish !
Why would anyone buy one instead of a 3 or 5 series ?

Shock! Horror! Top Gear rubbishes a BMW! No! Can it really be?

I've driven one, I didn't take it off road, but I found the handling just fine and the interior wasn't anything like nasty, it was actually quite nice (apart from the fact that it's in the modern Z4 / E65 / whatever idiom.) It certainly wasn't badly put together.

So, those of you who say to me that Top Gear is just light entertainment, better start saying that to Robin as well. And to everyone else who might still think it's a serious car program.

I think we should all write in to Clarkson and speak our minds. The fecking eejit!

[Robin]

Fair comment Spokey. However I don't quite know why they should give something a hammering for the sake of it.

One might say it's becuase they dislike BMW's. I remember when Quentin Wilson was on the programme describing them as "common".
However over the last year I've heard them say they like the Z4 & described the M5 as excellent performance for the money & they rated 5 series as best in class, so I'm not sure why would they knock something that didn't deserve it.
I repeat their question, If you don't need to go off road, not that you can go off road in an X3, then why buy an X3 when one can get a five series for similiar money & enjoy the proper handling that goes with it's lower centre of gravity ?

[Lorraine]

I'm with Spokey on this, Clarkson is a habitual BMW hater and doesn't really try to hide it. He drives a Mercedes. Need I say more.
Robin, don't watch Top Gear for informative purposes - it seems that the show has deteriorated into a car entertainment show as opposed to a show about cars. Clarksons observations are based on HIS very biased opinion only, not on open-minded assessment. There was a good thread a while back on this board about Top Gear and Clarkson I just don't remember where it was.....

It would make no difference whatsoever Spokey if we all let Clarkson know how we feel, I have a feeling that he is enjoying the "notoriety" he gets from being the way he is - its good for the shows ratings I would think. I can think of no other reason why Top Gear would not have booted him by now.

This is WAY off topic

[Robin]

Lorraine if we are too regimented about whether on or off topic our chat will be stifled or am I being naughty. Surely not, we are after all chatting about BMW's rather than the good or bad points about growing artichokes in greenhouses or should you fry halibut or bake it
Anyway maybe the bad X3 revue is down to Clarkson's querkyness, if that's how one spells it.

To sum up - The X3 wouldn't be for me regardless, however maybe I should consider adding a liberal pinch of salt next time I listen to Clarkson.

[Giles]

I repeat their question, If you don't need to go off road, not that you can go off road in an X3, then why buy an X3 when one can get a five series for similiar money & enjoy the proper handling that goes with it's lower centre of gravity ?

Why buy a Z3 when you can buy a SLK? Why buy an Audi when you can buy a BMW? Why buy a car, when you can buy a bike? etc etc etc.....

Robin your thirst for answers to questions that man has effectively been asking but unable to answer since the world began is admirable - if you find those ruddy answers please let us know

On the particular question of X3 v 5 series I wonder whether Stu would be able to enlighten us, there again who's to say he's right?

(BTW no matter what Clarkson thinks about the CSL, his opinions count for nothing in my book...anyone that slags off the 6 series in such a stupid way as he did a few months ago is an ego tripping tw*t)

[Robin]

Robin your thirst for answers to questions that man has effectively been asking but unable to answer since the world began is admirable - if you find those ruddy answers please let us know

Can you imagine thousands of years ago, men comparing types of oxcart as to which type was best for off road use compared to another. I guess it must have happened. Maybe it still does.
Whether one should go for a psuedo off roader or not, I guess in the end is subjective.

[tetchmeister]

Hmmm, I wonder...... why buy any type of sports car (especially an unpractical 2 seater), unless it is for track use ??

[Alfie]

Tetch...

I can't believe you could ask such a question!

Owning a roadster is SO much more than just hammering round a track. Performance is a huge part of the pleasure, obviously, but the whole ethic of two seats and roof down is all about BIG FUN at any speed.

Practicality is for the OTHER car, in my case, the wife's 5 door Megane.

I could throw the question back....
Why buy a road car for track use? Why not do it properly and buy a dedicated track car?

Cheers!
Alfie.

[Giles]

Tetch...

I can't believe you could ask such a question!

Alfie - I think (hope) Baz has his tongue in his cheek...

[Big Mr P]

Robin your thirst for answers to questions that man has effectively been asking but unable to answer since the world began is admirable - if you find those ruddy answers please let us know

Can you imagine thousands of years ago, men comparing types of oxcart as to which type was best for off road use compared to another. I guess it must have happened. Maybe it still does.

and I bet Clarkson was there, spouting his usual rubbish.

[tetchmeister]

Tetch...

I can't believe you could ask such a question!

Alfie - I think (hope) Baz has his tongue in his cheek...

Tongue was firmly in cheek.....

[Alfie]

Yeah, I guessed!

Just fancied a rant!



Cheers!
A.

[DavidO]

Why so inflamed about Clarkson?

Surely none of us would buy a car purely on a few seconds of TV appraisal, whether Clarkson or anyone else. We test it and make up our own mind.

Top Gear is great entertainment for petrol heads; nothing more or less.

Put your feet up, grab a tinny, chill out and enjoy. Me....I never miss it

p.s. He didn't much like the Z3, but who cares

[mihart]

Hi Guys

Anyone who parks a jet fighter on his front lawn just to say to everyone - look at me I'm a rich big kid with more money than taste cannot be taken seriously.
Entertaining yes - serious no.

Like most things, use other peoples reviews etc as a guideline not as gospel. Maybe use this to get a short list but then it's down to your own judgement and expertise - your'e the one that will have to live with that decision, at least until the finance is paid up.

The other thing that I find, I don't know about others, it is all down to first impressions / gut feeling. If something is instantly right to you - it probably is. How many times have we bought a suit or a pair of shoes and thought yey they will probably be OK and how many times do we actually wear them. Whereas the ones that are instantly right get worn to death. Same with cars, my current company car an X type Jag is OK but I hate it because I can't get comfortable. Did I test drive before - no, bought because of the monthly lease price being OK and the reasonable reviews. Now my M Coupe thats a different story - I loved it from day one.

Mike

[Alfie]

Mihart...

That's exactly why you, me and everybody else on the board drives a Zed. It's a purchase from the heart. A Zed will always be impractical, expensive to buy and run, and sometimes ridiculed, but that's really not the point.

No bad review, sneer from jealous friend or stranger, nor insult from biased hack will turn our heads from what we love.

I say forget what the figures and the magazines dictate and go with your passion.

My best buddy drives a Passat.
He did loads of research before buying his car.
I saw Golden Eye and was completely smitten.
It took me years to achieve it, but last year my dream came true.
That's the difference.

Cheers!
Alfie.

[Robin]

Just reminded me, that little bloke on Top Gear once said of the MX5 "it's for blokes that listen to Abba"
A few weeks later when he compared it to the Barcetta & MR2 he thought superb & best in it's class. So he is just as capricious as Clarkson.
I am sure they are very good solid reliable inexpensive roadsters so there's nought wrong in owning one. If you can put up with the hairdresser nonsense.

[Lorraine]

Robin,

The off-topic comment was only referring to the fact that we had changed the subject from the current thread. This topic now has its own thread which it deserves. When did I say anything about you being naughty??

[Robin]

Lorraine no, true you didn't but I have been naughty though.
After all I've helped increase Clarkson's notoriety !

[Giles]

The Clarkson debate is an interesting one. I find his Sunday Times column a hoot to read and I thought that he was great on the old style Top Gear. What intrigues me is what was the trigger point for his obvious dislike of all things Beemer? After all I refuse to believe he was BORN with his 'affliction'

[Robin]

I personally have a great affinity for his warped cynical humour. Let's be honest, he does highlight the world for how daft it really is. He's completley wrong about BMW's though of course

[Mark A]

The Clarkson debate does always seem to get people heat up a lot. I personally can't stand the bloke as he is very inconsistant and has been a 'consultant' to some car manufacturers, I won't name them!

There was no denying he went out of his way to make the X3 look as bad as possible last Sunday, probably went too far that it was very obvious.

However, I know this won't be popular but the X3 is pants!!! Yes I have driven one, yes I have had a VERY good look over one and know the market place very well in that sector (I also know some of the engineers who worked on it).

The handling is okay (and TBH Clarkson also said this), the ride comfort it terrible, the plastics are poor, nothing like as good as a normal BMW, the off road ability is absolutly useless as it has little ground clearance and the 4x4 electronics don't work very well. The car is overpriced, there are much better models in the market place which do the SUV thing a lot better. It doesn't even have a high stance to actually benefit the people who would by this type of vehicle. It even looks cheap, sorry but the flat black plastic panels don't work.

On the piece on the show he compared it to the Land Rover and the 5-series touring. Personally a 3-series touring would do everything required, the Land Rover is miles too far the other way, the new Discovery is a much better bet. SUV's in the slightly cheaper end of the market like the Nissan X-Trail (which clarkson doesn't like cause it's a Nissan????) are probably a better (not the Freelander until the new one comes out).

If it's because it's a BMW then you probably need to understand the reasons why you buy certain cars. Cars like the M Coupe and Z3 are heart based purchases (as are Lotus's, Porsches, Ferrari's etc), the X3 is a practicallity based purchase (you certainly wouldn't buy one for posing or trackdays) and there is much better in the marketplace.

[Robin]

My opinion of Clarkson dropped upon seeing that 'Apocalypse Clarkson' programme when he decided to destoy an old 911 by various means. Sheer vandalism.

[spokey]

Why so inflamed about Clarkson?

Surely none of us would buy a car purely on a few seconds of TV appraisal, whether Clarkson or anyone else. We test it and make up our own mind.

Because if you're not sure about the car, if it gets vilified before you go and test it, you might not go and test it? And besides, I personally don't take a big shine to being told that basically, my taste in cars is up my ass by someone who doesn't give me the chance to rebut his opinion.

[DavidO]

And besides, I personally don't take a big shine to being told that basically, my taste in cars is up my ass by someone who doesn't give me the chance to rebut his opinion.

Therein lies the difference. I couldn't give a toss if a TV entertainer (or anyone else for that matter) suggests that my taste in cars is up my ass. Life's too short..........and the fact that I chose to buy such a car is proof enough that he is wrong!!

[spokey]

And besides, I personally don't take a big shine to being told that basically, my taste in cars is up my ass by someone who doesn't give me the chance to rebut his opinion.

Therein lies the difference. I couldn't give a toss if a TV entertainer (or anyone else for that matter) suggests that my taste in cars is up my ass. Life's too short..........and the fact that I chose to buy such a car is proof enough that he is wrong!!

Fair enough, and you are quite entitled to your decision to drive a vulgar, tacky, tasteless BMW. Although why don't drive a proper British car like a Jag or an Aston Martin is entirely beyond me.

(My BMW Purity score http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmwpurity.html might be relevant in this discussion )

[DavidO]

Fair enough, and you are quite entitled to your decision to drive a vulgar, tacky, tasteless BMW. Although why don't drive a proper British car like a Jag or an Aston Martin is entirely beyond me.

No argument from me with that one. If someone would kindly donate the requisite funds, I would turn in my beautiful Z for an even more beautiful DB9 any day of the week (Whether Clarkson rated it or not )

[CTB]

Top Gear, it's entertainment, relax, let Jessa Clarkson have his outlandish and bigotted opinions, his comical comparative quips, lets face we are all bigots in one form or another, we choose to buy and drive Z3's instead of MX5's why... not because the MX5 is a bad car, it's just a matter of taste.
Relax, Live and let live, see beyond the obvious, I personally wouldn't have tried to take a tractor where top gear took the X3, if I had too, I would have straddled the ruts like any self respecting off roader.
Long live Clarkson, Long live Top Gear I say, it's the only entertaining show amongst a TV schedule of serious rubbish, the only down side to Top Gear in my humble opinion is that Vicki Butler-Henderson is not on it with her wickedly dirty laugh and cute rear end.

You lot take life far to seriously .........................

[spokey]

I heard a pretty plausible story about why Clarkson is always rubbishing BMW...

['MC' MarkC]

care to expand...:squeeze:

[Robin]

Most of the time Clarkson is correct in what he says. If he occasionally is not then that's a small price to pay for the laughs.
I haven't noticed him slagging of BMW's apart from the X3 & from what Mark M says, he's absolutely correct in doing so anyway.
They are only friggin cars anyway. As CTB says, no need to take everything that seriously.

[garyw]

Vicki Butler-Henderson with her wickedly dirty laugh and cute rear end.

She realy does have a dirty laugh doesn't she

[spokey]

care to expand...:squeeze:

I might.

[stu]

post edited.

[Phil]

When your opinion - right or not, carries weight with the public at large it can be dangerous.
I remember Tiff Needell saying bad things about the first Noble and orders were cancelled the following day. When he reviewed the second version favourably the order book instantly filled up.
So although Clarkson may be funny, unfair and biased reporting is not on.

[DavidO]

Only one Problem

Unfortunately, as all reviews are entirely subjective, the only solution to that "one problem" is to have no reviews at all - by anyone

[spokey]

Only one Problem

Unfortunately, as all reviews are entirely subjective, the only solution to that "one problem" is to have no reviews at all - by anyone

You are right, up to a point. Of course reviews are subjective, but when you repeatedly rubbish an entire brand because of your ego or arrogance on a public show that purports to be a serious motoring show, that is widely watched and still regarded as authoritative, you step beyond the line of subjectivity.

I will never spend my own money on a product of the Volkswagen AG group for hysterical raisins. However, that does not preclude me from saying that the Audi A4 is an excellent car that I would happily spend my money on if VAG hadn't driven me beyond my pain threshold when I still owned a Beetle.

I do still laugh at his turn of phrase, but it grates me immensely to have him test BMW after BMW in ways that are designed to make them look bad and then wrap up every review with a reason why he would prefer any other car. And his attitude towards BMWs in the cool wall is also appalling.

[Lorraine]

Spokey you are right on. Anyone that would put the M3 on the uncool wall is a complete idiot. And I remember when he test drove an M5 and a Merc "equivelant" and even though the M5 out accelerated, and out handled the Merc, he still could not admit that it was better than the Merc. In doing that he came up with no good reason why the Merc was better and his bias was so incredibly obvious that my husband and I burst out laughing.

We don't take him seriously at all, but unfortunately quite a few people do as you mentioned. He's on TV! He must be right!! That is what gets under my skin.

[Lorraine]

Sorry, this ended up being a duplicate, got an error when submitting it and ended up with two. Can't delete it so here is a completely worthless post!!!

[Lorraine]

Yet another dup! Sorry...

['MC' MarkC]

but when you repeatedly rubbish an entire brand ..... you step beyond the line of subjectivity.

...true, but you only have to look at BMW sales figures to provide an antithesis to some of Clarksons' ravings.

[Phil]

BMW sales may be high but how many more new customers to the brand have they lost because of his comments. Worse, what effect might his comments have or have had on the resale value of our Zs.

[DavidO]

He's on TV! He must be right!! That is what gets under my skin.

Surely, that is more of a sad reflection on the Great British Public than it is of JC.

When all said and done he constantly exercises his "bias" towards cash guzzling cameras, caravans and pil***ks who drive at night in the rain with rear fog lamps on. A saintly man if ever there was one

He even considers a Ford GT to be uncool......because he's got one!! Such humility

[Neal(2.8Roadster)]

..... But he never fails to mention that he has one though ????

dont think a single show has gone by (since his order was confirmed) without him shoe horning his GT into a conversation about another car ?

[Andre_z_3000]

I don't see what the big deal is, Top Gear rawks, and its the best car show I know of, it's light hearted and doesn't commit that cardinal sin of car shows - being dull and boring, it's a television show, it's meant to be entertainment, if I wanted droll car reviews I'd watch DW.

Clarkson is funny enough, sure he rubbishes a lot bimmers, but then he rubbishes a lot of cars, even supercars get the thumbs down for ridicuous reasons, and even if he did single out bmws, I don't care the slightest, on a scale of world events in somewhere around zero, sure he's prejudiced and ambiguous in his reasoning at the best of times but if you used his advice to buy a car you'd have to be a little crazy.

All up, I think it's an entertaining show and people need to take it less seriously!

[DavidO]

..... But he never fails to mention that he has one though ????

Wouldn't we all?????

[Lorraine]

Andre, that's the point. Of course its a light hearted entertaining show, we know that. But Joe Public doesn't see it that way, they might be entertained by it but they see it as information to absorb and they believe every word. That's what we are getting at.

[Robin]

I may be contradicting an earlier post I made on this but having thought about the matter, I guess TV journalists that revue cars are in a position of considerable influence on the market place. That is a position of responsibility. What they say about cars can sometimes be a deciding factor in whether the guys that make those cars are able to earn their daily bread & pay their mortgage.
Clarkson is a great as a clown, but as a responsible person ?
To use his favourite irritating quipe - 'NOPE'

As footnote, I met a chap from the isle of Man recently
Fortunately he wasn't as they depicted Manxmen on the Fast show
He said Clarkson would not be welcome back there becuase he nearly killed some people whilst test driving a car there.

[Giles]

He said Clarkson would not be welcome back there becuase he nearly killed some people whilst test driving a car there.

I think that was the CSL....

[Robin]

Giles yeh maybe that's why they were so upset