Strut Brace Woes - UPDATE - UPDATED!!

[TitanTim]

Hi All,

Just thought I would post my thoughts on the e-tech brace I fitted the other week. As you all know after fitting the brace I have been getting godamn awful noise sounding like the good ship lollipop in a force 8 and was really starting to grate.

So I decided this evening to take the brace off. What I noticed earlier today was the wheel arch liner on the drivers side was bowing down a fair bit below the arch of the bonnet This led me to think that once everything is torqued up the brace is effectively pulling the shocks up and bending the arch liner, not good in my book. I don't think this is helped that the mounting plates sit ontop of the shock tower blisters and are not a contoured fit so putting extra pull on the nuts and shock studs. I originally torqued the shock nuts up to 18lbs foot which is what Strong Strut recommend. The Haynes Manual mentions the shock nuts should be at 16lbs foot (without brace) so I don't think I was overkill tightening things up. When I removed the brace I noticed it had been rubbing on the top of the engine, plastic part off the intake which might have been what was causing the creaking and tapping noise. Went for a drive after removing the brace and completely silent again and back to normal

Decided I'm going to leave the brace off, what worries me as the brace isn't a contoured fit on the shock towers, I really think over time the pulling force will either damage the shock studs or what bothers me more the seams between the shock towers and the chassis. I was really surprised to see the plastic arch liner bending down, as soon as the brace was removed and I replaced the nuts torqued to 16lbs foot the arch liner was back where it should be.

Don't wish to put owners off fitting a brace to their Zed as I'm sure many have had no probs at all but just thought I would share my experience. Just don't think it was meant to be

Cheers,

Tim.[/b]

[markrnorton]

It sounds like your brace was not fitting correctly, it should rest on the top of the towers in a non stressed state. I have never had the issues you are describing.

Is your brace straight ? Ie not damaged ?

[TitanTim]

It sounds like your brace was not fitting correctly, it should rest on the top of the towers in a non stressed state. I have never had the issues you are describing.

Is your brace straight ? Ie not damaged ?

Couldn't see that it was damaged or bent and seem to fit correctly, however the e-tech isn't a contoured fit over the tower blisters, its sits ontop of the blisters with the other contact points being where the holes are for the mounting studs and looked to contact in all the correct places, I don't ubderstand why the arch liner should have been stressed? I really didn't want to tighten any more than 18lbs foot.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25687

Tim.

[Mike Fishwick]

The wheel arch liners do not touch the struts or their mounts, so your problem is probably coincidental.

The nuts cannot pull the strut upwards, no matter how much torque is applied tothem - all that matters is that they are not loose, plus a bit more.

My Hamann brace would also normally be pressed against the paint on the strut towers, but I figured his out before installation and used a couple of thick washers to pack it out a little.

I'll be buying a Strong-Strut brace soon anyway, which is about the best value fr money, and is very nicely designed.

[c_w]

It sounds like your brace was not fitting correctly, it should rest on the top of the towers in a non stressed state. I have never had the issues you are describing.

Is your brace straight ? Ie not damaged ?

Couldn't see that it was damaged or bent and seem to fit correctly, however the e-tech isn't a contoured fit over the tower blisters, its sits ontop of the blisters with the other contact points being where the holes are for the mounting studs and looked to contact in all the correct places, I don't ubderstand why the arch liner should have been stressed? I really didn't want to tighten any more than 18lbs foot.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25687

Tim.

Like Mike said I think your problems with the arch liner are purely coincidental as the struts can't be pull through the struts by those 3 bolts, they merely locate the strut to the car and prevent the strut falling out when unloaded but the weight of the car is on most of the time.

It looks to me like the e-tech brace is a poor design and reminds me of the strong strut butt-strut which uses a similar method for tightening against open spaces (best way I can use to describe it). It's basically putting the thread in tension without fully mating the two parts. This can cause problems with tightening them down properly. On the buttstruts it can deform the subframe end plates as the thread is trying to crush the dome flat when you tighten the large bolts. SImilar the 3 nuts will want to try and bend the brace top plates down each void. In that thread someone mentions putting washers in this space, this would be much better but ideally it should be fully contoured to match the 3 humps in the struts and also sit flush/flat on the areas around the studs.

[gookah]

When I removed the brace I noticed it had been rubbing on the top of the engine, plastic part off the intake which might have been what was causing the creaking and tapping noise.

Told you so!! those were the bits I packed out on my six cylinder with a bit of foam...

I don't know Tim......, some people just don't listen

Mine was contoured over the blisters, could you have your brace relieved in those areas?

[Frank.A]

I packed my E-Tech brace with penny washers.No strange noises and 6mm clearance over engine covers.

[TitanTim]

Thanks for the replies everyone, Well I did think the e-tech braces were supposed to be one of the best It is very well made and doesn't feel like it will snap in half The only other kinked brace for the 4cyl I know of is the ST1 Bilet which was the same price as the e-tech although unsure of it has contoured mounting plates.

I feel a little more reasured with Mike and c_w's advice so I think I will have another go now I know what the problems might be. I still don't know why the plastic arch liner seem to be affected by fitting the brace though as it was OK before and is OK after taking the brace back off. I think fitting next time around will try some Penny washers like Frank recommends and not torque the shock nuts up as much and see what happens with the arch liner.

Gookah, yepp you were right the brace was rubbing on the rear of the top of the engine but would never have known without removing the brace that it was rubbing as there is a few mm clearance but I guess with engine vibration it was rubbing and tapping making the said noise, it really did sound like it was coming from under the car and only started with the noise a week or so after fitting the brace. Well I would have listened if I had been armed with your forewarning before fitting Will track down some black foam to pad the contact point. Glad now it was the brace and nothing more sinister

Cheers,

Tim.

[TitanTim]

Hi all,

Just a bit of an update on the Strut Brace saga

Decided today to have another stab at fitting it but carrying out few little modifications. Discussed this with Kevan (Canman) and the noises I was getting was where the brace was rubbing on the top of the engine. Kevan very kindly send me some sticky foam padding (printing blanket) which he had used when fitting his e-tech. Used some penny washers on the shock studs and the padding on the tower blisters and the top of the engine.





Refitted the brace and torqued the stud nuts to 12lbs as opposed to 18lbs before. The drivers side arch liner still bows down a little but no where near as bad as before, just by a couple of mm so is tolerable, still don't know why its doing this, perhaps like this before and my imagination



My engine bay really needs a good clean

A spirited drive confirms no noises now so hopefully it will stay like this

Tim.

[msassoon]

Good to hear this is all sorted, but not sure how much cleaner that engine bay can be!

[gookah]

My engine bay really needs a good clean

Tim.

yeah... it's disgusting!!!

[TitanTim]

Good to hear this is all sorted, but not sure how much cleaner that engine bay can be!

Cheers msassoon One of the jobs on the list is to remove the unsightly engine laquer patches on the cylinder head and may give it a once over with some aluminium engine laquer

Tim.

[TitanTim]

My engine bay really needs a good clean

Tim.

yeah... it's disgusting!!!

I've shown you mine, so show us yours

Tim.

[Canman]

nice one Tim, a result then i guess
did you notice a difference ?

[TitanTim]

nice one Tim, a result then i guess
did you notice a difference ?

Cheers Kevan and thanks again for your help

Yepp no noises but will see how the week progresses, its much better with the brace back on just feels more planted and stiffer up front. Would have been a shame to have left it off. If anything it killed a Sunday Morning than going to church

Tim.

[gookah]

see.... not as clean as your 'scruffy' engine bay that you can eat your tea off!!

[TitanTim]

see.... not as clean as your 'scruffy' engine bay that you can eat your tea off!!

Clean enough for me to sleep on

Tim.

[TitanTim]

Just thought I would give an update on the strutbrace issues

After the problems of my first e-tech making groaning noises it was sold and thought I would try a different make, aka the GT brace from Automax Racing. As you you know this brace wouldn't fit so back it went.

As curiousity (stupidity) got the better of me I thought I would order another e-tech and fitted it this morning in the hope it was just a one off with the first brace After fitting, went for a good spirited run, 50 miles or so and no noises whatsoever, all was well in the Zed world at last a result. Anyways parked up at home and just about to go into the house when I noticed the bonnet didn't look quite right somehow The panel gap bonnet to bumper was way too large on the drivers side and miniscule on the passenger side Thought it might be the bonnet not latching on the drivers side so opened and shut it again but no joy, looked like the brace was stopping the bonnet closing fully Removed the brace and the bonnet went back to normal as before with correct shutlines. I noticed also the wheel arch liner on the divers side was way out as well which happened on the first e-tech brace I fitted. Reason being the brace was pushing the bonnet out of alignment on a horizontal plain i.e. lifting it up on the drivers side exposing the arch liner. I checked the surface of the bonnet and thanks the lord no damage or denting........PHEW Think I was lucky.

Brace will be staying off for good now , the tolerences on the 4cyl models are very tight so anyone thinking of fitting one do so with the upmost care.

Cheers,

Tim.

[Canman]

oh dear Tim, seems you having no luck with the brace. how strange though we have so called identical engines/cars yet you have problems and i dont.
think best you leave well alone the brace idea now as your wasting good money. at least you have tried.
still cant understand why your having difficulties
like you said the tolerances must be so tight

[TitanTim]

oh dear Tim, seems you having no luck with the brace. how strange though we have so called identical engines/cars yet you have problems and i dont.
think best you leave well alone the brace idea now as your wasting good money. at least you have tried.
still cant understand why your having difficulties
like you said the tolerances must be so tight

Hi Kevan, ahhhh well its only a hobby it was bugging me though, I think on mine the bonnet must be mounted lower, I didn't want to go messing with the bump stops as the gap that was being created on the drivers side was around 1cm so it wouldn't have looked right if I adjusted the passenger side to match. At least no damage done

Tim.

[hornel Z3M]

I suppose we can all brace ourselves for the next episode
I was looking for one for mine but have been put off a bit. I had a e-tec one on my 4 cylinder with no trouble at all but i suppose the engine bay is a bit fuller with the 6 cylinders. Thanx for the pics Tim.

[TitanTim]

I suppose we can all brace ourselves for the next episode
I was looking for one for mine but have been put off a bit. I had a e-tec one on my 4 cylinder with no trouble at all but i suppose the engine bay is a bit fuller with the 6 cylinders. Thanx for the pics Tim.

Paul, you shouldn't have much probs with the M

This might be just the excuse I need to swap the Zed for something else

No probs on the pics

Tim.

[gookah]

Tim, have you tried a fourth one yet?
..... that might fit

[w4tkins]

I suppose we can all brace ourselves for the next episode
I was looking for one for mine but have been put off a bit. I had a e-tec one on my 4 cylinder with no trouble at all but i suppose the engine bay is a bit fuller with the 6 cylinders. Thanx for the pics Tim.

Paul, you shouldn't have much probs with the M

This might be just the excuse I need to swap the Zed for something else

No probs on the pics

Tim.

Hi Tim

Sorry to hear of another brace failure Was that you saying you might chop your zed in

If you fancied one last attempt, you could remove the bonnet's sound deadening panel?? This is a good 5mm thick in places. It could give you the extra clearance needed to fit the brace???? Also you need sound deadening anyway, the engine has a better tune than the radio It is removed by unscrewing 12 or so X headed plastic rivets. Easy to remove and replace.

Good luck mate

[TitanTim]

Tim, have you tried a fourth one yet?
..... that might fit

Nahhh I'll save this brace for when you come back to a Z3

Tim.

[markrnorton]

[quote="Canman"]oh dear Tim, seems you having no luck with the brace. how strange though we have so called identical engines/cars yet you have problems and i dont.quote]

There may lie the problem, perhaps the 'lie' of your engine or bonnet is not quiet the same as other M43'd Zed's and this is causing you the issues.

btw the quote thing went wrong !!

[TitanTim]

I suppose we can all brace ourselves for the next episode
I was looking for one for mine but have been put off a bit. I had a e-tec one on my 4 cylinder with no trouble at all but i suppose the engine bay is a bit fuller with the 6 cylinders. Thanx for the pics Tim.

Paul, you shouldn't have much probs with the M

This might be just the excuse I need to swap the Zed for something else

No probs on the pics

Tim.

Hi Tim

Sorry to hear of another brace failure Was that you saying you might chop your zed in

If you fancied one last attempt, you could remove the bonnet's sound deadening panel?? This is a good 5mm thick in places. It could give you the extra clearance needed to fit the brace???? Also you need sound deadening anyway, the engine has a better tune than the radio It is removed by unscrewing 12 or so X headed plastic rivets. Easy to remove and replace.

Good luck mate

Hi Rob, hope your doing OK, yepp it did occur to me to remove the sound deadening but I'm still unsure it would give the clearance I need as the bonnet was high by a fair margin on the one side, I would say 10mm. I'm really puzzled as the engine clearance looks to be exactly the same as the first e-tech I fitted so just dunno.

Zeds going into winter storage in 2 weeks so might leave it until the spring now, there is another brace to try I think its the ST1 bilet, so might give that one a whirl next year. I was really worried I had damaged the bonnet yesterday

Cheers,

Tim.

[TitanTim]

oh dear Tim, seems you having no luck with the brace. how strange though we have so called identical engines/cars yet you have problems and i dont.quote]

There may lie the problem, perhaps the 'lie' of your engine or bonnet is not quiet the same as other M43'd Zed's and this is causing you the issues.

btw the quote thing went wrong !!

Cheers Mark, I'm starting to think if mine being a Sport has any bearing, I don't think Kevans Zed is. Probably has nothing to do with it Just seems strange why I cant get a brace to fit correctly

Tim.

[markrnorton]

Tim

it does seem odd, seeing as it normally does fit others . are your engine mounts original ?

Mark

[Canman]

mine isn't the sport Tim but looking at your engine bay photo they do look identical. apart from your engine bay finished in undercoat

[slacz]

I wonder why it doesn't fit.. i've seen some 1.9 Z's with the e-tech bar with no clearance problems. Are there variations in the engine bay between certain 4cyl models?


My e-tech bar is arriving in around a week.. hope it fits.

[Lazzzydog]

The problems are probably being caused by a twisted chassis from previous crash damage. Is your car possibly a cut and shut? Are both ends the same colour?

[Canman]

it is all in undercoat so could be

[TitanTim]

Haha I did wonder why the rear wheels keep overtaking the fronts

Fortunately the Zed is accident free, even though it was BMW used approved I did all the usual checks. There is no records of the engine mounts ever been done, well by BMW anyways.

I think the problem is simply the bonnet sits lower, only explanation, not all Zeds bonnets will be the same, some will sit higher, some lower.

Kevan, the reason my engine bay is matt is so my shiny engine doesn't blind the nice BMW man when he services it

@ Rob, yupp maybe thinking of a Change next year and going back to one car

Do the bonnet shutlines look tight? or about right?




Tim.

[Canman]

they are tight Tim but only maybe a mm tighter than mine

[TitanTim]

Cheers Kevan, looks about the same to me maybe my sound deadening is twice as thick!

Wished I had taken a pic yesterday with the brace fitted and the bonnet gap I could get my big toe in but I was so pissed off, I took it straight off and nearly tossed it in the wheelie bin

Tim.

[Canman]

maybe you could raise the front bumper and front wings then raise the bonnet. did you know i was selling my pristine front bumper ebay

[swamper]

strange............mines just went straight in as well

[gookah]

Tim, have you tried a fourth one yet?
..... that might fit

Nahhh I'll save this brace for when you come back to a Z3

Tim.

No I wouldn't do that,........ because on the Z3, you can't get parts nowadays, that fit