ATF oil leaking loose fan

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Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Sun 24 Nov, 2013 18:31

Here I go again with another plea for help! And no doubt I'm gonna need to put my debit card in ice after....again! :head:

So after changing the bonnet cables and catches, which wasn't to bad or expensive, on closer inspection I have noticed oil from the ATF reservoir leaking up against the adjoining plastic case and also an oil light that comes on every time I start, but then quickly turns off!

I topped up with a litre of oil today, but I have checked the ATF reservoir and it's tight closed but the oil seems to leak out somehow??

Gear box is fairly new 18 months old as is flywheel and all runs very well?

I also noticed the radiator fan appears slightly noisy (crunchy) so I'm guessing the bearings may have gone, also a little loose. :head:

So doctor how bad is it? :bawl:

Thanks yet again guys :shrug :shrug

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Southernboy
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Southernboy » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 08:38

Hi'ya FF..... I have yet to come across an ATF filled reservoir that doesn't "sweat"....It's endemic to all cars....they all look as if they are leaking, and they are too...but the volume is so insignificant as to be negligable. To check the level in the reservoir, just pop into a repair shop and ask them to undo the cap and check the level...takes 5 minutes.... :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
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Southernboy
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Southernboy » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 10:25

Regarding the "loose" fan...If it is able to be moved away from and towards the motor, I would suggest it's the "Viscous clutch" at the center of the fan...there are no bearings in the main fan which is related to the fan directly....so, if it can be moved as I described above, get it sorted asap...it may end up doing damage to the radiator...which is a costly part!! If it is in any way "loose"...99% sure it will be the viscous clutch...and here's the rub...you can buy "after market" generic clutches off eBay, but be aware that some of these are not desirable..reason being, they do not disengage at their center clutches, and your car will sound as if it's an Airbus about to take off!! The OEM clutches are the best choice in the first instance. Removing / replacing the clutch is a 10 minute DIY job if you know what you're doing...Finally, you must ensure which viscous clutch your car is fitted with...some have 3 bolts and some 4 bolts which hold the actual black plastic fan to the clutch....also, the large nut which holds the viscous clutch to the crankshaft has a "reverse thread"...ie. it is undone by turning it in a clockwise direction, and fastened by turning it in an anti-clockwise direction. The spanner size for that nut is 32mm. To undo the large nut, you place the spanner on the nut and give it a sharp smack from left to right with a hammer. This will loosen the nut, whereafter it can be spun off the crankshaft and lifted up and out....with some manoevering, but without having to remove anything else from the car. Although if you remove the fan shroud, it does make getting the fan out and re-placing it a whole heap easier.... :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
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Robert T
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Robert T » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 11:20

Regarding the fan, do you have a rattling noise? http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11215

Mike F's KB article is here: http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=11221

Do check the waterpump for play, as a failure of the bearings here can make a nasty mess off your engine bay if the fan makes contact with the shroud.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 16:13

Thanks for the very valued input.

It does have the back and forward play, and it does sound crunchy so i am guessing its not well/will go soon/needs replacing/asap/more money/hide from the wife/do it quick kind of job. :o

I have contacted the main dealer and after giving him the reg he has quoted £202 inc vat for the Visous clutch. Not the fan, although I think thats ok. Will check.
For that money I would have to have a go my self though at fitting. Fingers tightly crossed :pirate:

So if possible does anyone have an exploded view or know where I can get one please?

One thing after another springs to mind :head:

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Southernboy
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Southernboy » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 16:36

Your local dealer is a thief!! I would phone alternative BMW dealers !! I replaced mine with an OEM BMW part new from BMW and it was not more than £ 75.00.
Part # 11527505302
No. 2 in the pic...
Image

Removal and fitting as per my guide above...
"Normal is overrated"
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Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Del » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 16:42

Assuming it's the fan clutch at fault and not your water pump, that BMW price sounds expensive. My understanding is that the OE manufacturer is a Beru. The price of a Beru fan clutch for your car is around £100 at carparts4less - see attached.
There are cheaper ones around - as low as £25 on ebay - but feedback I have heard is that they aren't very good and make an awful roaring noise.

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/car-fans-parts

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Robert T
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Robert T » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 17:31

BMMiniParts shows the manufacturer as either Behr or F&S for my 1.9. It is a different part number for a 2.8. They don't seem to have a stock of either, but they will try and locate one for you if you ask. Coopers are quoting the same ridiculous price for the 2.8 part. :(

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
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  M roadster S50

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by pingu » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 19:44

Southernboy wrote:Your local dealer is a thief!! I would phone alternative BMW dealers !! I replaced mine with an OEM BMW part new from BMW and it was not more than £ 75.00.
Part # 11527505302
No. 2 in the pic...
Image

Removal and fitting as per my guide above...
Southernboy. The correct UK price IS £200 :shock: ...

http://www.cooper-bmw-parts.co.uk/index ... virtuemart
Pingu

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 21:34

Southernboy wrote:Your local dealer is a thief!! I would phone alternative BMW dealers !! I replaced mine with an OEM BMW part new from BMW and it was not more than £ 75.00.
Part # 11527505302
No. 2 in the pic...
Image

Removal and fitting as per my guide above...

Thanks Southernboy

Although I have called around and they are all that amount (UK) so far. I have also been studying ebay, and with your previous warnings in mind, am debating if this is the cheaper easier root? I have seen them new for £27.95 GBP

I Have also contacted a mechanic that I know and asked him for a good quality after market part?

Will let you guys know what price/part he suggests!

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 21:40

Del wrote:Assuming it's the fan clutch at fault and not your water pump, that BMW price sounds expensive. My understanding is that the OE manufacturer is a Beru. The price of a Beru fan clutch for your car is around £100 at carparts4less - see attached.
There are cheaper ones around - as low as £25 on ebay - but feedback I have heard is that they aren't very good and make an awful roaring noise.

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/car-fans-parts
Nice one Del!!

Now this looks a much better price £101 GBP
HALF PRICE NEW PART :wink:

Please tell me if anyone has fitted one of these or the even cheaper one, or do they squeal like a jumbo :shock:

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/car-fans-parts

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2122

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Del » Mon 25 Nov, 2013 23:13

Robert T is correct. I've double checked and the OE makers seem to be either Behr (now Mahle Behr) or Fichtel Sachs (now ZF Sachs). Beru (Borg Warner Beru) and Febi Bilstein are German manufactures making premium after-market parts. If you have a mechanic friend on the case, his view will be very helpful.

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Tue 26 Nov, 2013 07:03

So now I'm thinking that the aftermarket part could be more than good as it's a German part, and a real good price, so should I change the fan and the water pump too ? As it sits behind?

I'm thinking preventative although I don't have any issues or known problems with it? :dunce:


This is never ending... :?: :rtm: :shake:

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Tue 26 Nov, 2013 07:07

Del wrote:Robert T is correct. I've double checked and the OE makers seem to be either Behr (now Mahle Behr) or Fichtel Sachs (now ZF Sachs). Beru (Borg Warner Beru) and Febi Bilstein are German manufactures making premium after-market parts. If you have a mechanic friend on the case, his view will be very helpful.
Thanks Del

I guess BMW put handling? Charge double, even so a Germanic part has got to be more refined than a Chinese part, that's a given surely :pc

So that's that then? :)

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 07:20

Fozzfox72 wrote:
Southernboy wrote:Your local dealer is a thief!! I would phone alternative BMW dealers !! I replaced mine with an OEM BMW part new from BMW and it was not more than £ 75.00.
Part # 11527505302
No. 2 in the pic...
Image

Removal and fitting as per my guide above...

Thanks Southernboy

Although I have called around and they are all that amount (UK) so far. I have also been studying ebay, and with your previous warnings in mind, am debating if this is the cheaper easier root? I have seen them new for £27.95 GBP

I Have also contacted a mechanic that I know and asked him for a good quality after market part?

Will let you guys know what price/part he suggests!
Just had price back from mechanic to supply and fit, it's a whopping £320! :nono

Absolutely staggering, I sometimes think when some mechanics see my car they think I'm an easy touch. Won't be asking them no more thats for sure. :bad

Anyway as the saying goes if you want a job done right do it yourself. I'm going to fit later, if the part is in.
Now I'm off to buy the tools! :dunce:

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 07:29

Del wrote:Assuming it's the fan clutch at fault and not your water pump, that BMW price sounds expensive. My understanding is that the OE manufacturer is a Beru. The price of a Beru fan clutch for your car is around £100 at carparts4less - see attached.
There are cheaper ones around - as low as £25 on ebay - but feedback I have heard is that they aren't very good and make an awful roaring noise.

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/car-fans-parts

Thank Del
I also found this site, although the site you recommended is better/cheaper

http://www.eurocarparts.com/car-fans-parts

:squeeze:

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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
Posts: 3338

  M roadster S50

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by pingu » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 09:51

You will need a special tool to hold the water pump while you undo the fan (lh thread). The fan nut is 32mm.

I would use a salvage part. There will be loads around. The viscous part you want will survive almost any accident, although the fan blades rarely survive a frontal impact.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=29069
Pingu

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Southernboy
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Southernboy » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 13:24

The fan nut is a easy...simply place the spanner on the nut and use another large spanner to give it a sharp smack from left to right...it will loosen immediately. When re-fitting, screw it onto the bolt until it reaches the end of the thread, and give it and using the 32mm spanner as before, give it a sharp smack from right to left. The motor turns in the opposite direction to the thread, so it always tends towards becoming tighter...so the fan will not "fly" off.
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Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 14:08

Hi all,
And thanks for the help with this ...again!

I have just bought the parts EIS from http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/ as recommended

I did try eurocarparts, but their price had shot upto £74 over night :head: so i called them and they say they had a sale, which expired at midnight last night! damn! so they missed out on my cash, although i could have collected from them today. Im going to wait 48 hours and bought the same parts for £46 from http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/ :squeeze:
see the google search from euro rip offs below, before price increase at midnight. Wish they changed it on website!!!!

Also bought the fan clutch spanner from Halfords at a reasonable (£12.99) after calling around. Most places don't stock that big (32mm) and if they do its either in a set or its £34.99. :nerd:

EIS - Euro Car Parts UK's No.1 Car Parts Retailer
www.eurocarparts.com › Car Parts › Cooling & Heating‎
Euro Car Parts Offers High Quality Fan Coupling. Order Online or ... EIS Fan Coupling Part No.: 206110031 Was £74.40. Now £46.56 Save 37%. EIS. Delivery ...
:bad

I have also been on youtube and have seen a couple of guys changing the fan clutch. fingers crossed very tightly :D

Fozzfox72
Joined: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:40
Posts: 90

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by Fozzfox72 » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 14:16

i found this very helpful pictoral guide too

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... p?t=388656

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janijoeli
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Re: ATF oil leaking loose fan

Post by janijoeli » Tue 03 Dec, 2013 23:08

Hi mate, I didn't see this thread earlier, but here are my 2p:

I just recently changed the viscous clutch and fan blades on my zed. I went the "all ebay" route for both parts and the tools. It was around £30 for clutch, £25 blades, £13 for spanner and £15 for the special holder tool. £83 is not bad for everything, and I get to keep the tools. :D

I'm glad I bought the holder tool as well, as reasonable amount of force was needed to loosen the fan nut (I guess it had seized a bit in 15 years of its life). It maybe could have been loosened using the spanner & hammer trick given enough force, but it was just so easy with the tool. I also wouldn't want to risk breaking anything more expensive than the tool in case the spanner or hammer slipped.

I've had the el cheapo ebay fan clutch only for a few months (and way too few miles), but so far so good. No noises and works as I would expect. Let's hope it lasts for ~50k like the previous one.

Here's my post:
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#p360171
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