Strange clutch action - judder 2.2 58 k miles

[pedro20001]

hi all, last night I experienced clutch judder pulling off in 1st gear, 4 or 5 times driving to work. after standing all night, got in and struggled to get any gears for a few seconds. Declutched a couple of times and no problem. drove back, no judder at all! The only thing i can think of was the car was out in all that heavy rain on a sloping drive before I drove to work; whether this has any bearing ( sounds daft i know!) but otherwise I am scratching my head! any thoughts? cheers

[kkkrisss]

probably time for a new clutch

[Mike Fishwick]

58k is nothing for a clutch, unless the car has been owned by one of the 'Dump the clutch at 5000 rpm' idiots. Mine has covered 126000 miles so far, and our Golf TDI (which produces more torque than an M Roadster!) 192000 miles - both on the originals.

As the problem is associated with standing outside overnight in the rain, I would think that it is a sign of rust on the steel plates, preventing the friction plate from fully engaging, and therefore slipping until the rust has been removed. The problem in gear engagement would be an associated problem of clutch drag, as the rust will prevent the friction plate from sliding smoothly over the steel plates.

Try engaging first gear before starting the engine, so that the clutch is wiped clean on starting. This should at least prevent the gear engagement problem.

[pedro20001]

cheers guys, that confirms my suspicion as i normally keep my car in a garage where possible and could not believe the amount of rain we had last night! at least there was not a single drop of water getting into the cabin

[BladeRunner919]

The other possibility is a problem with the clutch hydraulics - if you have a slight fluid leak the act of declutching a few times may have pumped any air out of the system.

[kkkrisss]

A night of rain cannot make the clutch slip.

I am keeping my car outside with days without starting it and never had a single problem with a slipping clutch.

Problem with the hydraulics is very likely though...

[Del]

I've known this happen on other makes of car i.e. slight judder when damp. Haven't encountered clutch slip though. I would just keep an eye on it for a while, 58,000 would be very early to wear-out an OE Z3 clutch.

[Mr Silver]

The clutch consists of a friction disc clamped between the flywheel and the pressure plate at a pressure that requires a fair degree of force via hydraulics to disengage so there is no chance of water contamination or 'rust' affecting its operation. Further, the standard clutch will function quite adequately under water should the occasion arise. Clutch 'judder' will generally be the result of broken and/or missing springs in the friction plate (put there to reduce that effect) or a badly worn down friction disc. This narrows the problem down to the hydraulic system which can exhibit problems after an overnight stand. Possibly the fluid may be overdue for replacement and it could be a good place to start.


Hope this helps

Regards

[Mike Fishwick]

Yes - a clutch will work under water - but not for long, unless the friction plate is impervious to moisture, which most are not! Most friction plates are quite good at absorbing moisture, being of a more fibrous compound than a disc pad, for example.

My clutch drags quite noticably after not being used for a couple of weeks during a damp period, but soon clears itself - which I can only put down to moisture being driven out by heat, and any rust on the steel plates being removed by use. I would not like to bet on which problem causes this, but it is one or the other - or maybe a bit of both.

And yes - I have seen clutches which slip for a while after a damp period, due to the material welling slightly in some areas. It is very unusual, but it can happen.

My advice is simply to keep using the car, and if the problem goes away after the rain, forget it - but a new clutch? Not yet.

[pedro20001]

cheers guys, touch wood all is ok, no obvious fluid loss but might change fluid anyway soon. thanks again.

[pedro20001]

damn, so much for so far , so good! Got in car yesterday and gearlever wouldn't go into any gear even after declutching. after a couple of tries went into 5th then all gears ok. got in today, no probs! clutch feels ok, no judder so still scratching head. only mod is an earls hose about 2 years ago so wondering if slave cylinder is causing prob? any more suggestions is greatly appreciated. oh and a very merry christmas to all zedders

[Mike Fishwick]

Well, it would certainly not do any harm to bleed the slave cylinder - ideally by removing it and invertin so that the bleed nipple is uppermost.

[Southernboy]

...I'd go with a full fluid / bleed....you may have an air pocket in the system somewhere which is causing the intermittent gear engagement you have recently experienced. Having said that, I have occaisionally had a similar experience when at first start-up I can't locate reverse, and need to put the car into 1st and slightly move forward before then engaging reverse. Thereafter, it has no issues locating reverse.You might also consider a change of gearbox lubricant if you haven't done one yet.