boot floor welding

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miller1098
Joined: Fri 18 Jan, 2013 22:41
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boot floor welding

Post by miller1098 »

had a few days holiday and just had my boot floor seam welded and spot welds drilled and rewelded .very happy wiht he work .cost £75 with Ray at Daytona autos congelton 01260297957 roughly half a days work Ray photographed the process as he went on.Its a proper garage
Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Del »

That's a good price. I've often wondered whether it's possible to drill out failed spot welds and replace with strong nuts & bolts - possibly titanium ones as used in the aircraft industry - you would think they would be more than strong enough. :nerd:
Ballie
Joined: Tue 16 Jan, 2007 19:03
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Ballie »

Good price for that. Extremely common problem unfortunately; seems that there is no real permanent fix for the boot problem, as they always seem to go after a few years.
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janijoeli
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by janijoeli »

Very good price indeed! Would you be able to share the photos they took? I would love to see more details about how the work is being carried out, as my Z3M needs this doing soon.

I wonder if anyone would do this near London for similar money, or for a hundred or so? I might be just dreaming...

I've also wondered what is the next weakest point after boot floor has been strengthened? Ballie, do the seam welded boot floors still crack as well?
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swamper
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by swamper »

had mine done at the same place last year...

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the badness makes me do it...!

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Kornknarr
Joined: Fri 05 Aug, 2011 19:07
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Kornknarr »

A bolt does not solve the problem. You will probably see the bolt ripped out of the very thin metal. I'm not sure wether seam-welding and reinforcement of the spotwellds will solve the problem in the long run since it is a bad design from the beginning. I've installed Randy Forbes kit http://www.spcarsplus.com and feel confident that that will solve the problem since it adds considerable structural strength to the construction. Yes, it is more expensive. Yes, it is a more involving work to be done. But especially for the Ms I think that is the way to go if you really want to sleep good at nights.
I did the install myself and I can tell you that when you have handled the thin steel that makes up the cross member and the boot floor you understand that you need some more strength to the construction!
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Ballie
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Ballie »

As Kornkarr says; the metal is thin. It's just a matter of time before the welds go again on the bigger engines. That's if your driving the car as its designed to be driven. My diff bracket was replaced by BMW early on, which isn't a problem now. But I had to have welding done on the boot last year (seam welded). I personally don't think it will last because of how flimsy the boot floor actually is but only time will tell I suppose.

Anyone had to have theirs done more than once?
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gookah
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by gookah »

Ballie wrote: It's just a matter of time before the welds go again on the bigger engines. That's if your driving the car as its designed to be driven.

The irony is, that it obviously hasn't been 'designed' to be driven in that way, even though the capability is there.
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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by pingu »

gookah wrote:
Ballie wrote: It's just a matter of time before the welds go again on the bigger engines. That's if your driving the car as its designed to be driven.

The irony is, that it obviously hasn't been 'designed' to be driven in that way, even though the capability is there.
Exactly this.

Always be aware that the weak point will now have shifted to somewhere else. I've strengthened mine (above, as yours, and below) and added a shim to the "ear" to ensure it is not pre-stressed when the bolt is tightened. At the moment, I have had no more problems - yet.
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miller1098
Joined: Fri 18 Jan, 2013 22:41
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by miller1098 »

I don't know about you guys but my car is 14 years old I sometimes drive to see how fast it will do 0-60 and so on,I know swamper does track days,I can't say mine has an easy life but if a check of the spot welds every so often and a few £ every now and then it don't seem bad value!im hopeing this fix will last a while ,so far this is a cheap easy no hassle fix time will tell and I will keep you updated .
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Brian H
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Brian H »

Ballie wrote:Anyone had to have theirs done more than once?
I had my 1.9 done twice. The first time the spot welds that had failed were plug welded, these plug welds failed within a year, the second time the rear beam was taken out and the whole crossmember was seem welded.
kkkrisss
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by kkkrisss »

are there any noises coming from under the car when the boot welds are failing?
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janijoeli
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by janijoeli »

Also has anyone have any issues after seam welding?
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janijoeli
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by janijoeli »

The spot welds in Giorgio's boot have cracked, so back to this old topic.

Has anyone had any problems after boot has been seam welded? I've read a lot of comments on various forums that seam welding isn't sufficient, but I haven't seen any evidence to support this claim (or I just haven't found it).

If seam welding is fine, I'll give Ray a shout. It's a bit far from London, so if anyone has got their welds done somewhere closer for similar price...

Cheers!
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Brian H
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Brian H »

After the floor was seem welded in my 1.9 I had the car for a further year or so, there was NO repeat of the issue.
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Southernboy
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Southernboy »

I had a couple of spot welds pop on my 2.8 some years ago, and resorted to doing the diff cover replacement. This is a matter of replacing the single eared cover for a twin eared cover and creating a new mounting point on the second ear side... A simple job, but does require finding the correct cover for your OEM diff. I didn't bother with re-welding anything, and never had any further deterioration of the welds that were intact before doing the mod....
There is a twin eared cover which will fit the 2,8 size diff which requires nothing more than a new mounting to be fabricated and welded on the opposite side... everything else is a 100% fit... I have just recently been assisting a Z3 owner in the USA with his car, and the conversion was that easy. A replacement cover was found on eBay for around $.30.00...
The twin eared diff cover distributes the problem causing twisting force into a push / pull action between the two ears...thereby not pulling and pushing on the same side and causing the spotwelds to pop.
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janijoeli
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by janijoeli »

Brian, thanks for the info! 1 votes for seam welds, 0 votes for no seam welds. :D

Barry, cheers mate, I believe the twin ear cover will require a custom exhaust on a Z3M, but otherwise it would be a nice solution!

I think I'll go with the seam welds (and strengthened diff mount) for now... I am going on a roadtrip in a couple of weeks and don't have time to do much else, unfortunately.
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Daz3
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Daz3 »

I seam welded my boot floor, diff mount and crossmember a couple of weeks ago I had two spot welds popped in my 2.8! Hopefully cured the problem!
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janijoeli
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by janijoeli »

So Ray is busy until beginning of May or so... And my roadtrip starts on 30th April. :(

Anyone got theirs done somewhere else? Or any volunteers on doing the welding (for a price of course)??
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Damon
Joined: Mon 07 Jun, 2004 09:33
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Damon »

kkkrisss wrote:are there any noises coming from under the car when the boot welds are failing?
Yes. When the diff mount fails the diff rotates under load. This caused a knock/clank noise as it hit the exhaust. If yours has failed you will be twisting the boot floor every time you accelerate. Could lead to all sorts of noises. It's easy enough to check. Just remove the boot carpet.
I had the boot floor and crossmember seam welded a year or so ago. No problems since.

If you do need yours doing you need to find someone good at welding. Even the best BMW indie might not be any good at welding.
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pingu
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by pingu »

Damon wrote:
kkkrisss wrote:are there any noises coming from under the car when the boot welds are failing?
Yes. When the diff mount fails the diff rotates under load. This caused a knock/clank noise as it hit the exhaust. If yours has failed you will be twisting the boot floor every time you accelerate. Could lead to all sorts of noises. It's easy enough to check. Just remove the boot carpet.
I had the boot floor and crossmember seam welded a year or so ago. No problems since.

If you do need yours doing you need to find someone good at welding. Even the best BMW indie might not be any good at welding.
Exactly this. It's a job for someone who is expert at welding and fabrication, not someone who is expert at diagnostics and spannering.
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Rocketman
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Re: boot floor welding

Post by Rocketman »

Kornkarr,

I have the Randy Forbes kit but not yet found an installer/welder. Did you have to modify the exhaust system on your car once the kit was installed?

Regards

Rocketman
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